An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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21-06-2011, 11:56 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2011 12:52 AM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
RECAP
Old Testament Recap
RECAP
RECAP
I have drudged through the teachings of the Old Testament. Let's summarize what we've learned.
RECAP



First: What in the almighty HELL are people talking about when they refer to the moral teachings of the Bible?

Please consider that I only included a few of the killings and sacrifices and genocides because it was getting redundant before I was even out of Leviticus. I would say there are about 10 times the amount of bloodshed and immoral acts than what I mentioned. I'm not exaggerating. The estimated 25 million listed by Dwindling in Disbelief couldn't all fit on my forum posts without making readers vomit.

And including the "good" teachings I skipped for not being overly groundbreaking ("be good to widows"), I would estimate I observed roughly 20-25 verses that could be considered morally sound.

The "killing/raping/revenge" to "be kind/respect" ratio is about 1000:1.



I also left out about 5 times the amount of dragons, witches, sorcery, and necromancy that were mentioned, once again due to consideration for the reader. After 15 or 20 times, we get it. Same goes for all the references to the "foundations" or "edges" of the earth.


[Image: god-vs-devil.jpg]



The description from Dawkins is quite accurate:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."



I also left a lot of things out because they aren't entertaining, and that was the driving purpose of the critique. Entertainingly honest.

Use Skeptics Annotated Bible if you're interested in finding all the:

Contradictions
or
Unfulfilled Prophecies


[Image: f9128ea4-7f6a-4828-8e26-b27fbac11415_1.jpg]



I would say the dominant words in the OT are:


Blood, Sacrifice, Fire, Destroy, Curse, Suffering, Plague, Pestilence, Famine, Flesh, Consume, Fear, Kill, Judgement, War, Smite, Punish, and Death




If God were a loving being and the Bible was his message, these words shouldn't even APPEAR in such a book, unless it was to condemn the action. But this God embraces and delights in causing suffering to mankind.

His message to us in nearly EVERY book is, "Kill this kingdom because they don't believe in me" or "Go forth and tell these people all the terrible things I will do to them" or "I am the LORD thy God and I will destroy you all for ignoring me."



The only reason anyone would have to praise this deity is out of shear FEAR, which he demands of his followers constantly.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that at no point does God say we should STOP giving him burnt offerings and sacrifices, and yet we ignore this important part of the Bible (because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice!). God also seems to have stopped talking to us on a angry note. He was making prophecy that he would destroy all the cities and rebuild them with the faithful, but he was still pretty pissed at us.




NEW TESTAMENT




[Image: 546252526_3811e94968.jpg]



Feel free to discuss the OT while I'm working on the first post of the NT. I'm going to be more thorough with this one because 1. It's easier to read and 2. This is the whole kabootle. Christians everywhere dismiss the brutality of the OT with a shrug, saying they only follow Christ and his teachings. So let's dissect every thing this Christ character says. Let's compare him to the God of the OT, since they are supposedly the same person.

Let's take a journey and become Christians (again for some of us) and honestly decide if this person is worth worshiping.



First, I'd like to post a rough timeline of the dates when the books of the Bible were written. I understand this is debatable, but that the debate is usually between historians and christian apologists who are trying to make the dates fit their needs.

Here's a timeline that I give some credibility to, being that it's from a university and not from answersingenesis (though they do list their source as "christianstudycenter"). If anyone sees errors, let me know.

Dates of the Bible


And from Wikipedia:

"Estimates for the dates when the canonical gospel accounts were written vary significantly; and the evidence for any of the dates is scanty. Because the earliest surviving complete copies of the gospels date to the 4th century and because only fragments and quotations exist before that, scholars use higher criticism to propose likely ranges of dates for the original gospel autographs. Scholars variously assess the majority view as follows:

Mark: c. 68–73, c 65-70
Matthew: c. 70–100. c 80-85.
Luke: c. 80–100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85, c 80-85
John: c 90-100, c. 90–110, The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition.

Traditional Christian scholarship has generally preferred to assign earlier dates. Some historians interpret the end of the book of Acts as indicative, or at least suggestive, of its date; as Acts does not mention the death of Paul, generally accepted as the author of many of the Epistles, who was later put to death by the Romans c. 65. Acts is attributed to the author of the Gospel of Luke, which is believed to have been written before Acts, and therefore would shift the chronology of authorship back, putting Mark as early as the mid 50s. Here are the dates given in the modern NIV Study Bible (for a fuller discussion see Augustinian hypothesis):

Matthew: c. 50 to 70s
Mark: c. 50s to early 60s, or late 60s
Luke: c. 59 to 63, or 70s to 80s
John: c. 85 to near 100, or 50s to 70



So even conceding to the Christian belief that the earliest gospels were written in the early 50's, and that Jesus died, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven sometime around 30-33 AD... you've still got a 20 year gap where nobody wrote shit. If I see a dude become a zombie, then float up to heaven in front of me... it doesn't take 20 years for me to grab a pen and jot the shit down. Especially if I devoted my life to following this person around, and have now just had my beliefs justified.

Are my dates or logic wrong here? History buffs feel free to throw in tidbits about the findings and alterations of the Gospels that help explain things, I'll be focusing on the text itself. The divine, irrefutable text.



This seems like the perfect amount of time to be waiting around for a messiah character and decide to fulfill your own prophecy. I mean if we had a religion that was conceived a few years ago and was gaining popularity, and then in 2031, nothing had happened yet that had been predicted in the doctrines of that religion, don't you think someone would attempt to fulfill it themselves? People are starting to talk, starting to question, getting restless, so you and your fellow believers go, "But I SAW the messiah just the other day! He... did magic... and walked on water! He cures people from leprosy! We ALL saw him!" And then you just take it from there. You sit down with your friends and make up a story, which is expanded on by later believers who recognized inconsistencies in your books. I mean people already do that today anyways. They've built fake arcs about 43 times now and tried unsuccessfully to bypass scientific scrutiny in their effort to conjure evidence.




So without any further adieu, let's dance with Jesus in the pale moonlight.




[Image: imageshack-share-photos-pictures-free-im...g-site.jpg]

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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22-06-2011, 11:46 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Here's another good site for dating the Bible: http://www.errantskeptics.org/DatingNT-C...lOrder.htm. They list all the scholars who've done the dating, including the earliest/latest dates and average dates. (We should also remember that quite a few of "Paul's" writings are actually forgeries. This site doesn't really focus on the authenticity of the authors, just the dates.)

Also, from what I've read of your summaries so far, it appears that there is actually only one line that can be called a "prophecy" about Jesus, and it's actually about a guy named Immanuel. Seriously, where are all the numerous prophecies that supposedly predicted Jesus' coming? Did I miss something?

Thanks again for doing this Buddy Christ! I'd never have the patience to get through all the OT myself Tongue Are you going to go through the NT in chronological order or in the order it appears in the Bible?

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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22-06-2011, 12:34 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
I'm still on page 9, lol. How do you throw these up faster than I can read them? I've been reading them everyday too. Maybe I do too much cross-reference of my own to see that (yup!) the bible actually has this chit written. Will catch up soon, especially since NT is comin'!
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22-06-2011, 03:09 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(22-06-2011 11:46 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Also, from what I've read of your summaries so far, it appears that there is actually only one line that can be called a "prophecy" about Jesus, and it's actually about a guy named Immanuel. Seriously, where are all the numerous prophecies that supposedly predicted Jesus' coming? Did I miss something?

Did you see my prophecies link? Most are about cities that will rise up or remain uninhabited (that never did) but I'd say 1/4th are Jesus prophecies. You probably missed them because they sound nothing like Jesus prophecies. They say something like, "A prophet shall come and prepare the way for the Lord, and he shall burn cities with his army of sea creatures" and the faithful will somehow go, "See! Clearly proof of Jesus!"

I'm going to make a new post about prophecies to address this.


Quote:Thanks again for doing this Buddy Christ! I'd never have the patience to get through all the OT myself Tongue Are you going to go through the NT in chronological order or in the order it appears in the Bible?

No way. I've seen some places that list Job as the first book written and some places that list it as 1200 years later. I simply judged the Bible in the order that the Council of Nicea wanted me to read them.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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22-06-2011, 03:26 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
I'm so excited that I started reading ahead into Matthew. Right off the bat I see face-palm material.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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22-06-2011, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2011 07:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(21-06-2011 11:56 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
I would say the dominant words in the OT are:


Blood, Sacrifice, Fire, Destroy, Curse, Suffering, Plague, Pestilence, Famine, Flesh, Consume, Fear, Kill, Judgement, War, Smite, Punish, and Death

I thinks I can make me a word cloud. Give me a few days. I has teh codez!

(21-06-2011 11:56 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
NEW TESTAMENT


Let's take a journey and become Christians (again for some of us) and honestly decide if this person is worth worshiping.

Ooh ooh ooh, I think I just peed myself. Not to bias you or nothing, but my going in position is dude is definitely worth emulating. He'd be pretty disappointed to find people worshipping his sorry ass. "No, no, no, you've missed my point entirely." Wink This is fun, BuddyChrist!

(21-06-2011 11:56 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
So without any further adieu, let's dance with Jesus in the pale moonlight.


[Image: imageshack-share-photos-pictures-free-im...g-site.jpg]

Lord, I was dancin', dancin', dancin' so free
Dancin', dancin', dancin' so free
Dancin', Lord, keep your hand off me
Dancin' with Mr. D., with Mr. D., with Mr. D.

#sigh
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24-06-2011, 03:09 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2011 03:11 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
[Image: matthewc.jpg]


(Strap yourselves in, this is a ridiculously long post, and it's only the first half. But since every thing I write is like fine wine and deserving of careful consideration, you WILL READ EVERY DAMN WORD! Enjoy.)




1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat...


-The New Testament starts off with a boring genealogy of who begat who. Real dynamite start. I can't believe the publishing company allowed this intro.



1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

-After wasting our time with a page of family trees, we are informed that Jesus is the child of "the Holy Ghost." You could have saved 20 verses and just said, "The Holy Ghost begat Jesus." And what the hell is a Holy Ghost?

-So God decides to take the form of a human fetus and teleport into a woman's sideways sloppy joe. Why? Why is a normal birthing necessary? Why doesn't God just take the form of a 30 year old man and appear before us like he's done so many times before? You get the feeling a woman trying to hide her whoredoms told a lie that would snowball out of control.



[Image: birthJesus.jpg]



1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

-Joseph, aware that it wasn't his child since Mary never seemed to put out, hid the pregnancy away instead of... you know... proclaiming this miracle to the world.



1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS:


-But of course, the prophecy only spoke of a young woman, not a virgin, and then there's this Emmanuel claim again... which doesn't apply to anything. And this vision occurs while Joseph is dreaming (1:20). Who the hell wakes up and lives their lives according to their dreams? Last night, I dreamt that I was running through a forest, trying to elude family members who were trying to kill me for some reason. When I woke up, I didn't resume my fleeing, I recognized reality from brain activity.



2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.


-Three "wise men" (where did we get "kings" from? the song?) follow a star from the east to Jerusalem.

2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

-Because when 3 random dudes walk into town asking for the location of someone no one has ever heard of... the whole town and the king immediately believe them, and are deeply troubled.



2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

-Second lie about fulfilled prophecy from the OT. The verse is referring to the book of Micah... except that Micah states that a "military leader" will be born in Bethlehem Ephratah... which is a clan, not a town, and that this leader will defeat the Assyrians... which never happens. (SAB)

-Right off the bat you get the feeling that the New Testament was written simply to fulfill all the prophecies left open by the Old Testament.



2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

-Now stars are capable of flying around as they please and acting as waypoints. But of course, with God all things are possible... except that God is now a newborn child... or did he just split himself and is both a child AND a supreme deity watching over everyone... including his newborn self. But if that's true then the deity God allowed all the future stuff to happen to himself. He essentially crucified himself. Man this story is full of holes.



[Image: three-wise-men-star.jpg]



2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

-So... at this point, all of Jerusalem and these 3 men believe this child is God or at least a prophet... all because some chick claimed that a Holy Ghost knocked her up. Easy crowd to convince. And notice that there's no mention of a manger in Matthew.



Joseph and Mary then take Jesus straight to Egypt to stay away from angry Herod.

-Even though Luke claims that they first ran to Nazareth... but again, I'm not here to point out inconsistencies. Those are found in the link at the OT recap.



2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.

-Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event. (SAB)



2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,

2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.


-Why did they have to wait until the natural death of something that desired the demise of God reincarnate? Couldn't God (omnipotent space God) have taken care of this dick the way he killed everyone else who got in the way of his plans?



2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

-Alright, I guess I WILL be addressing prophecy since this book is trying so hard to prove itself. I just read the entire OT... WHERE did it say ANY prophet will be called a Nazarene?



3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

-Enter John the Baptist, the most homoerotic man ever depicted in art.



[Image: st_-john-the-baptist.jpg] [Image: 220px-Andrea-del-Sarto,-John-the-Baptist.jpg]



3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


-John's a racist.



3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


-John is correct in his logic. WHY does the Holiest of Holies need to be baptized? What sins are being cleansed from Jesus? Does the original sin apply to even Jesus when he is born? That doesn't make much sense.



3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


-Soooooo, God either just spoke to himself... or Jesus actually was the literal son of God, aka a completely different entity from God. A sub-deity or a demigod. Why would God refer to himself as his son... if he wasn't the actual son? Why not just say, THIS IS ME IN HUMAN FORM?



4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.

4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


-God takes Jesus (himself) into the wilderness with the purpose of letting Satan tempt him. After assuming that "fasting" allows for eating at night, or else I'm baffled, Satan shows up and asks him to turn stone into bread to prove himself. But Jesus claims that "it is written that man shall not..." So Jesus is just following what he read in the Old Testament.



[Image: temptation-of-jesus.jpg]



4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.


-So now Jesus believes himself to be God, since he's referring to himself as the Lord, thy God.



4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


-All the kingdoms of the world... seen from the top of a mountain, eh? And how can Satan "give" kingdoms to Jesus? Does he own them? Jesus so far is just quoting things that have been written in the OT (the last one was even a misquote), which all conveniently applied to this random situation where Satan sets Jesus up to apply the old prophecies, then leaves.

-And also, WHO THE HELL is writing all this down? It's just Jesus and Satan in the wilderness and on mountaintops. Did Jesus tell this story later around a campfire to all his apostles? "Dude, this one time, me and Satan were on a hill..."



Jesus finds a bunch of fisherman (Peter, Andrew, James and John) and convinces them to be his posse. Then he starts healing sick people and gaining a reputation.




THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT
[Image: Sermon%20on%20the%20mount%20by%20Bloch.jpg]



5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,


-Here it comes. God manifested himself as this person (or knocked up a hooker deity and birthed a son) so that he could inform people of these divine teachings. Here we go.



5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

-Poor in spirit. Poor. In spirit. Not actually poor... but lacking in spirituality...? Perhaps spirit as in "will" like their will has been broken by oppression? Little vague, Jesus, let's watch the wording.

5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

-Everybody mourns. I realize "evil men" are depicted as sadists gnashing their teeth and dancing around gleefully in their evil deeds, but ALL human beings mourn for one reason or another.

5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

-I understand "meek" to be humble and overly submissive. Why would God reward submission... wait that's a stupid question. He does love sheep after all. But submission is not a good thing. All the famous rebels and fighters for liberty and personal freedoms were the opposite of submissive. They defied, they rose against oppressors. Are we to assume this is bad?

5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

-There you go, Jesus. People who desire to see righteousness shall be rewarded. Nice, encouraging lesson. But hardly divine.

5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

-Ok

5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

-"Pure in heart" is rather ambiguous isn't it? Most evil dictators are only doing what is right in their heart, aren't they? I'm just saying, Jesus should be an absolute master of every language, correct? It's just language, and Jesus is a god, so his teachings should be the pinnacle of beauty and composition while perfectly delivering his message. So why is he being so succinct and ambiguous?

5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

-So why the hell are there so many Bible thumping, right-wingers who embrace war? And why so many Crusades and Holy Wars?

-"What was that?" "I think it was, 'Blessed are the cheesemakers.' Obviously it refers to any makers of dairy products" Get used to it, I'm gonna be quoting that movie throughout.

5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

-Now you're just repeating yourself. All out of moral teachings already?

5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

-You literally JUST said that with different wording. [End of Blessings]



5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


-You are the torchbearers of God, so don't hide, but let it be known to all.



5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

-BAM! Mention #1 to uphold the laws of the OT. I forget how many mentions there are, so I hope this list is longer than 1.

"I am here to fulfill prophecies" sounds kind of strange. You would think that a prophet will just fulfill prophecies unconsciously... not like Jesus, who seems to be aware of the prophecies and is now trying to fulfill them.



5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

-Shazoozle! Very next verse, I'm technically up to #2. The laws of the OT shall stand forever, since to fulfill all prophecies would bring about the end of mankind in the day of the Lord.



5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


-If you kill or are angry with your brother for no reason, you might be in danger of judgement... but if you call someone a fool, you're pretty much condemned to hell.




Let's take a breather! This is a long critique but the NT is just so much fun!





5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


-While going over the commandments again, Jesus claims that adultery consists of simply lusting after a woman. Well then thanks for giving me uncontrollable erections and an overload of testosterone God. Shall we make women cover themselves in sheets, perhaps, to remove temptation (and their liberties)?



[Image: burka-1.jpg]
Look at those sexy eyes.



5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


-It is better to poke out your eyes and cut off your hands than to risk being cast into hell. "Oh that part isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY silly!"



5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

-Women can only be divorced if they cheat on you (men can cheat all they want). And anyone that marries a divorcee is committing a sin (dirty evil women!).



Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, turn the other cheek, etc




5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.


-Be an overachiever. If someone sues you, just give them all your stuff. Give to everyone that asks for money. Hmmm. I've got a few walking Christian wallets I need to contact.



5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


-This is the "divine" teaching I constantly hear about. "Jesus said love your enemies! Nobody had ever said something like that before him!" First, I don't necessarily agree with the message. If I'm faced with a Nazi who took delight in his involvement at the Auschwitz extermination camp... I don't see any moral reason to "love him" or "bless him." I may pity him and shed a tear of sorrow over the path a fellow human being has chosen. And how can a God who sends "his enemies" to eternal torture instruct us to "love" ours?



6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:


-Keep your good deeds so secret that even your right hand is unaware of the deeds of your left hand. I... got nothing. Well done. Not god-like, but good advice. Let others be the ones to toot your horn, and be humble about it.



6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


-Christians... PLEASE heed this advice. Listen to your Bible! Keep prayer out of schools and public events. Pray in private. If everyone started doing this, I would cease all hostilities towards Christians and would probably stop posting on this forum. This is exactly what I want. Keep your "creation science" theories private as well.



6:9 - 6:13 The Lord's Prayer



6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?


-Mammon is material wealth or greed, personified as a deity (like below). There are lots and lots of references in the NT that wealth and heaven are incompatible. Yet that doesn't seem to dissuade the preachers with the million dollar homes. The second part is pretty depressing, preaching the meaninglessness of this life. A big "what's the point" attitude.



[Image: 97031-48028-mammon_super.jpg]



7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

-Great Metallica lyric. Oh, and FAGS WILL BURN IN HELL. Ah, Christians. They know not what they do.



7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

-Don't be a hypocrite. Seems to be the most ignored teaching of the entire Bible.



7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


-Mark Twain said there are "upwards of a thousand lies" in the Bible. This is probably the biggest. How many desperate, frightened, broken-hearted parents have watched their children die while begging God to help? (SAB)



7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


-So God is aware that the majority of us are going to hell. Seems like he would do something to change that, like... oh I don't know... physically APPEAR before us one time in the past 2000 years, like he did so many other times before then.



7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


-Just because you constantly pray doesn't mean a thing. If you're not obeying the laws of the OT, you ain't going to heaven. So the way I see it, only certain Jews are going to heaven. Also, another mention of the father/son relationship.



7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


-They were astonished? A dude in a robe stood on a hill and said "be kind, humble, and righteous" and they were blown away by his wisdom?

"He taught them as one having authority" ...so because Jesus claimed to be godly instead of speaking for the gods, people were impressed.



Jesus touches a leper and heals him, then a soldier asks Jesus to heal his slave back at his house just by declaring it (though he doesn't seem to mind the whole "possession of slaves" aspect), then Jesus heals Peter's mother-in-law of a fever (the first pope had a wife?).

Then crowds gather around Jesus with their sick folks and he heals them, until he got claustrophobic and said, "Get away from me, I'm tired."

8:18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.

8:19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.




[Image: monty-python-s-life-of-brian-original.jpg]



8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


-Leave the carcass to rot and follow me!



Jesus crosses a river in a boat and controls the weather with his mind.

8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?


-Seems to be an infestation of demonic possession. And what rather convenient dialogue that these demons have. "Hello Jesus, who is definitely the Son of God! We demons have a knowledge of these things and confirm his god status. Would you like to use your awesome God powers to punish us demons, who are clearly beneath you?"



8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

-This appears to be Watchman's favorite verse, citing that there are no hills in the actual area.



8:34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

-Howdy Jesus! Could you get the hell out of here?



9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.

9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?


-Sins cause paralysis, so Jesus cleanses him of them. And also, Jesus is now a mind reader.



9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

-If this is the same Matthew as the author, he just missed a big chunk of the story he's now writing. I mean if no one was writing down the sermon on the mound (it was a rather impromptu speech), how do we know any of it is correct? If I tried to recount a speech I had heard days ago, every third word would be improvised. Especially if in between then and now, I witnessed a man control the weather and force demon pigs to drown themselves.



9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.


-Just once, Jesus, can we get a straight answer out of you? Why does every response have to be a riddle? I'm starving here, and I'm pretty sure you just called us women.



A diseased woman touches Jesus' robe to try and heal herself and she is told to relax, her faith has already cured her of it.

-So now Jesus doesn't even have to touch the person. Faith alone cures diseases.



[Image: JesusHealingMan.JPG]
Apparently everyone in the Middle East was white.



9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

9:30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.


-"I am affected by a bald spot." I love that movie. And how could blind men be following Jesus? Divine radar? Also with convenient lines to spout, "Since you are clearly of the lineage that would identify you as the prophecized son of David, use your magic and heal us."



9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.

9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.


-Satan causes people to be mute. "The dumb spake." I'm going to use that one in an argument sometime. "Behold, the dumb spake."



10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;


-The apostles can now heal the sick. The fishermen he convinced to follow him around now have superpowers, including the power to raise the dead.



0:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

-"Cast off the shoes, follow the gourd!"



[Image: 0.jpg]



10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


-Well, you got the family disputes and hated by all men prophecy right. Now when's this whole salvation thing gonna happen? Cause it's been 2000 years. Still waiting.



10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


-Ah, some of my favorite verses. I came to bring the sword. I'm here to set families against themselves, since anyone that loves a family member more than he loves me is not worthy of me.



10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

-Martyrdom anyone?



11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?


-John is still in prison at this point and a little skeptical of Jesus.



11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

-John is the greatest man to have ever lived! But he's shit even compared to the lowest peon in heaven. Soooo, are you saying that we can't get to heaven? Since even the greatest man we have produced still isn't worthy of heaven? And what kind of bullshit heavenly ranking system is this? If I dedicate my whole life to getting into heaven, I don't want to hear about how I'm 2nd to last on God's Friend List.



Jesus condemns entire cities to hell, then says:

11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.


-Is Jesus praying to himself, or is he an actual son? Get your stories straight Christians! And why is Jesus thanking God for "hiding himself from the wise"? I thought we were all supposed to have a chance to get to heaven, not be left in the dark for being too smart?



12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?


-The Pharisees call Jesus out for sinning and Jesus makes up some bullshit on the spot. Seriously, if anyone can find an OT reference of priests profaning the sabbath and not being judged for it, let me know. Otherwise, Jesus just sinned.



12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.


-These cornfields are actually GREATER than the temple. But since you all clearly are unfamiliar with the laws of the Bible, I will have mercy on you. Nice save, Jesus!



Jesus casts out more devils...

12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.


-Good point. This could just as easily be Satan "casting out" his own minions to appear to be God.



[Image: wgart_-art-g-giaquint-satan.jpg]



12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


-Jesus, the mind reader, answers their accusations with more bullshit riddles. "If I'm Satan, how could I cast myself out without my kingdom falling?" What?

12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


-Jesus escalates his argument with threats. "Do you REALLY want to question God? Those that question God will never be forgiven, even in the afterlife."

-Nice one Jesus! That's what I would say too if I were pretending to be God.



12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


-So they're like, "Fine, we'll stop questioning your Messiah-ness, just give us one sign." To which God of course says, "Only evil people would ask for a sign. Jonas lived in a fish for 3 days and nights and I will do the same in the heart of the earth."

-People claiming this to mean his tomb after the crucifixion would have to explain then why Jesus was only in his tomb for 1 day and 2 nights.



12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!


-Jesus' mother and brothers ask to speak to him and he blows them off and claims that his followers are his true family. Real nice, Jesus.



13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:


-The Lord explains why he always speaks in riddles; because he wants to confuse the hell out of people he doesn't want to save. Then he explains that he does this specifically to fulfill a prophecy of the OT. "It said it would happen in Isaiah, so... I'm doing it."



[Image: images-of-jesus-christ-1.jpg]



13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.


-Jesus seems to have a shockingly inaccurate knowledge of nature. Mustard seeds don't grow into trees and they aren't the smallest of the seeds.



13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

-Jesus, in his attempt to fulfill more prophecies, badly misquotes from the book of Psalms.



13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?


-People were astonished by the "wisdom" of Jesus telling everyone they were going to hell. Then the people that seemed to really know him (familiar with his family) reject him, and he leaves because of their unbelief (13:58).



14:1 At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,

14:2 And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.


-Herod thought Jesus was a resurrected John the Baptist. Apparently, it was a common opinion at the time (See Mt.16.13-14, Mk.6:14-15, 8:27-28, Lk.9:7-8, 18-19). If so many of Jesus' contemporaries could be so easily fooled regarding John the Baptist, what does this do to the credibility of the resurrection of Jesus? (SAB)



Jesus feeds 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish. Then he gets on his boat again, and for like the fourth time, they are hit with typhoon weather (how bout you make the weather clear BEFORE you go out this time Jesus?). Jesus and Peter walk on water.



----Mid-chapter break----


I'm cutting it off here and starting the rest in another post. The NT is MUCH more ridiculous than the OT. So far, all I've seen in proof after proof that Jesus was bullshit. The only people who see him do his miracles are the people that devote their lives to following him around. Of course, they're going to tell everyone else about all the magic that they've seen him do. And when confronted by nonbelievers, he dodges the accusation like a politician and refuses to do miracles. How dare you question me?? Whoever questions me will burn forever. You don't want THAT, now do you?

Also, Jesus seems VERY aware of the old prophecies and seems hellbent and doing them all. Prophecy is supposed to be fulfilled naturally and then recognized as fulfilled prophecy by third party perspective, not fulfilled because some guy is purposely TRYING to fulfill them.

If you've read this far and now hate me for the text overload, HOW DARE YOU GET ANGRY AT MY VERBOSE NATURE. Only rapists and child molesters would be angry at too much text!

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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24-06-2011, 12:12 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Ah, okay now I understand why I couldn't find any Jesus prophesies in the OT. You have to (mis)interpret them AFTER the fact in order to see that they clearly predicted that Jesus was the messiah.

Oh, and it also helps that he was trying to fulfill them... I guess... 'Cause we wouldn't call that a self-fulfilling prophecy, would we?

After thinking about this for a moment, this lovely dialogue popped into my head. It goes a little something like this:

Child-Jesus: Mommy, Daddy, when I grow up, I want to be the Messiah!
Mary: That's nice dear, but only the person who fulfills all the OT prophecies can be the Messiah.
Child-Jesus: But one prophecy is already fulfilled, Mommy. Daddy said that you were a virgin when I was born!
Mary gives Joseph a look that says 'You lied to our child?! That's it, no sex for you tonight!'
And Joseph responds: That's right, Jesus, because Mommy and Daddy definitely did NOT have premarital sex because premarital sex is WRONG.
Unfortunately, since Child-Jesus had the attention span of a child, all he heard was "sex is WRONG", so that's why he remained a virgin for the rest of his life.
And Mary continues: And we wouldn't lie to you, because lying is a sin. Do you know what happens to those who sin? Do you?
Jesus: Ummm... (Hasn't read all of the OT. Sees the fire burning merrily in the hearth.) God will burn me?
Joseph thinks this is a good deterrent.
Joseph: Yes, that's right. If you lie, then God will burn you. And he won't just burn you for a little while, he'll burn you forever! So be good!


And that's how we get the teachings of Jesus! Tongue

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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24-06-2011, 01:09 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Holy macaroni that was a long post. I wish I could read. Well off to bible camp.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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24-06-2011, 02:01 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(24-06-2011 12:12 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  Ah, okay now I understand why I couldn't find any Jesus prophesies in the OT. You have to (mis)interpret them AFTER the fact in order to see that they clearly predicted that Jesus was the messiah.

Oh, and it also helps that he was trying to fulfill them... I guess... 'Cause we wouldn't call that a self-fulfilling prophecy, would we?

After thinking about this for a moment, this lovely dialogue popped into my head. It goes a little something like this:

Child-Jesus: Mommy, Daddy, when I grow up, I want to be the Messiah!
Mary: That's nice dear, but only the person who fulfills all the OT prophecies can be the Messiah.
Child-Jesus: But one prophecy is already fulfilled, Mommy. Daddy said that you were a virgin when I was born!
Mary gives Joseph a look that says 'You lied to our child?! That's it, no sex for you tonight!'
And Joseph responds: That's right, Jesus, because Mommy and Daddy definitely did NOT have premarital sex because premarital sex is WRONG.
Unfortunately, since Child-Jesus had the attention span of a child, all he heard was "sex is WRONG", so that's why he remained a virgin for the rest of his life.
And Mary continues: And we wouldn't lie to you, because lying is a sin. Do you know what happens to those who sin? Do you?
Jesus: Ummm... (Hasn't read all of the OT. Sees the fire burning merrily in the hearth.) God will burn me?
Joseph thinks this is a good deterrent.
Joseph: Yes, that's right. If you lie, then God will burn you. And he won't just burn you for a little while, he'll burn you forever! So be good!


And that's how we get the teachings of Jesus! Tongue


Plus he didn't even start to do anything holy until he was 30. Plenty of time to read up on past literature and formulate a plan.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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