An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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16-11-2011, 07:37 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(16-11-2011 07:19 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(16-11-2011 06:46 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  One book closer to Revelations.

You can only do Revelations on acid. Let me know when you get there.

Field Trip!

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16-11-2011, 08:08 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
I think of the entirety of the atheist critique this last was my favorite.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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17-11-2011, 12:46 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2011 01:00 AM by Erxomai.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

-The moon is not a light, it is a reflection of the sun's light. This is the first of many examples that suggest that God's omnipotence seems to be limited to the knowledge of the demographics and time period of when the Bible was written. Strange.

Not so strange. God didn't say he was making two lights. Bronze Age man who didn't know what the moon is made of wrote it with his understanding. It has nothing to do with God's omnipotence. It has to do with the flawed humans he loves and chooses to deal with as his agents to the world.

1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

-Our? Just how many gods are there?

Just 1 God. But we know him as the Trinity three in one: Eternal Father, Eternally Begetting the Son, Eternally emanating power through the Holy Spirit. (Plus, let's not forget all the Host of Heaven to whom God was addressing his comments).

2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

-even though they say that God only "rested" to set an example of how would should rest on the 7th day, couldn't the Bible just say "rest on Sunday" ??(question mark)? It clearly says God rested, which means that this all-powerful being was worn out from all those valleys and hills and Wyoming and platypuses.

Wow, Please don't ever use this argument with a Bible-believing Christan and lose them with your over the top sarcasm. This verse is not about God being tired. It is not even about God "modelling" Sabbath Keeping. God's rest on the 7th day beautifully signifies the completion of God's work. Jesus would have to utter these words again someday because of the Fall, but at that moment in time, God was able to look at his creation and say, "It is finished." His work of creation was perfect and good. And thus, by the way, the reason why Evolution is obviously a tool of the devil. Because God rested and showed his work was done, there can be no such thing as evolution on a macro level and that's why dinosaurs and humans lived together before the Flood.


The Garden and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil


-Sooooo... God takes these 2 newly formed, ignorant to life humans, puts them in a garden with a tree bearing food, nonchalantly goes "don't eat from it" ... then leaves... to go make Venus, I guess. And you know the rest.

So... WHY did he put them near the tree? WHY did he have that which he didn't want humans to attain be edible and tempting? WHY did he leave? WHY did he allow Satan the Snake to be in the garden, knowing full well that he would tempt them? Why did God design these 2 humans to be susceptible to temptation?

Way too easy to answer: God has given us freewill. He already had the angels, who were created just a little lower than humankind. They did not have the same sort of freedom that he gave us (although we have to somehow understand how Lucifer had freewill to fight against God and be cast from heaven). Now, in Humanity, God has the crown jewel of his creation: a creature who has complete free will. How can you test free will? If you put no tests in front of a person, you'll just have blind obedience. God does not want blind obedience. He wants you to choose him by your own freewill.

Then God comes strolling by (3:8 "walking in the garden in the cool of the day") at the PRECISE moment after they eat the fruit and goes "whoa whoa, what's going on here?" (I'm paraphrasing, of course)

You're missing the beauty of this verse. God...the Almighty Creator of the Universe is not some Deistic idea of a watchmaker god who builds and goes away. God is With Us...Later to become the Name of the Messiah, Jesus Immanuel: God is With us. Almighty God walking in the Garden in the cool of the day to meet with his children like he had done on so many days before. And of course Omniscient God knew what had happened, but this is story telling at it's best. You don't go in guns blazing. This is a teachable moment for these naughty children. And yeah, the rest of history is going to be rough, but it is HIStory and even in that moment of casting them out of paradise, God had already set in motion a plan to bring his children home through the sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus, to mend the rift between God and Humankind that had been caused by disobedience.

It's like having a 2 year old child and going "Now son, I'm going to leave these delicious chocolate chip cookies sitting right here within reach of you. I'm going to the store to buy some Funyuns. Don't eat them. Bye!" When any caring parent would remove temptation, knowing that the child doesn't know any better.

So it's quite obvious to me that God WANTED man to F up royally. God created man with the sole purpose of imposing "original sin" upon him, so that he may feel guilty and grovel and ask forgiveness for something that wasn't his fault for all eternity.

That child who ate the cookies is now 40 and the parent is still bringing it up daily. "I don't care if you saved an orphanage from burning down today... remember when I told you not to eat those cookies and you did?"

Pretty much said this above...the answer is not that God is wanting humans to F up, but if they don't have the opportunity to rebel, then what good are they? We shouldn't be mad at God for creating the test. We should be angry at our first ancestors for making the wrong choice and thus defiling all of creation by proxy.


Cain slays Abel and is "cast out" arbitrarily from one remote location of this empty world to another random remote location. Then he worries that "every one that findeth me shall slay me."

-This is a strange worry since he is 1 of 3 people in existence. Then he sleeps with his wife to start the incestual chain of humanity... but where did his wife come from?

You're obviously not reading the text. Genesis goes on to say that Adam and Eve had other children, including daughters. Don't forget, they lived hundreds of years so the population would have a chance to grow. Yes, it is a bit disconcerting to think that the first couple of generations of humanity had to be incestuous, but there really wasn't any problem then. The "bloodlines" were pure so there was no fear of genetic mutation for 2-3 generations. (Now is your chance to POUNCE on the Bible Believer by pointing out the incest of Noah and his daughters was also done to re-populate the earth. But they were already quite a few generations away from Adam and Eve, so this would clearly lead to genetic problems. Lot and his daughters essentially have the same story later...evidence that many authors had their hand in writing the first 5 books, not just Moses by himself).

6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days"

-I'm assuming these are literal giants and not "intellectual giants" or some modern term.

Yeah, dude, where do you think Goliath came from? Duh. The text says the Sons of God Fucked the Daughters of Men. Simple arithmetic: Demon Sperm + Virginal Ovum = Nephilim (giants). Duh.

Then the Lord decides that all humanity is corrupt and needs to be massacred via flood.

-One... why the need for an elaborate flood? Why not just use your God powers and make every one not exist? You can only create from nothing, not turn into nothing? Two, were we not already told that men were made in His image? So either God is evil and corrupt, which is why we turned out like we did before and after the flood... or he is incapable of creating things how he wants. God is a flawed designer.

Did you not get the message about Demon Spawn taking over the earth? The bloodlines had to be kept pure. Oh, by the way, this is one of my favorite late-night AM radio show conspiratorial whack job theory: Aliens came to earth and began meddling with human/alien DNA, creating all sorts of mutants and hybrids. Things got out of hand and their only recourse was to destroy everyone and start over (This makes way more sense to me than God and the freewill gig).



After all that...I need to go rinse my mouth out, and wash my hands, and maybe let the shower run on me as I sit on the floor hugging my knees to my chest and sobbing.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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17-11-2011, 02:38 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2011 02:44 AM by unsapien.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(16-04-2011 03:12 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  -So we should kill prophets whose predictions don't come true. Isn't this justification for the killing of Jesus? He promised many things "the meek shall inherit the earth, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place, etc" that didn't come true.

On this point I godda stick up for Jesus. He hasn't been proven wrong about this yet! Look for the Gospel of Nicodemus, it didn't make it into the bible but it talks about the soldier that stuck Jesus with his Lance to see if he was dead. He was punished by God for Lancing Jesus. He was to live until the end of time in a cave where a lion would come every night and attack him, then he his wounds would magically heal during the day just to be attacked again and again. The guy was made into a Saint, St. Longinus, the last of the generation that lived in the time of Jesus getting Mauled by a lion somewhere on earth this very minute! Odd though that I can't find any gospel about God punishing the soldiers that actually nailed Jesus the the cross in the first place?!

It's also Kinda odd for the church to make a guy that is being punished by God into a Saint.
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17-11-2011, 06:14 AM
 
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Quote: He was punished by God for Lancing Jesus. He was to live until the end of time in a cave where a lion would come every night and attack him, then he his wounds would magically heal during the day just to be attacked again and again. The guy was made into a Saint, St. Longinus, the last of the generation that lived in the time of Jesus getting Mauled by a lion somewhere on earth this very minute!

does the whole 'lion kills you every day and your wounds miraculously heal" bit sound like a rip-off off the Prometheus and the vulture (eagle?) story to anyone else? damn... these christies can't even come up with their own original mythological nonsense. ... they have to hijack other people's stories and put the jesus stamp on them.
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17-11-2011, 02:04 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Erx, I can't tell if you're trolling or defending the Bible or what. But I'll respond anyways.


(17-11-2011 12:46 AM)Erxomai Wrote:   Not so strange. God didn't say he was making two lights. Bronze Age man who didn't know what the moon is made of wrote it with his understanding. It has nothing to do with God's omnipotence. It has to do with the flawed humans he loves and chooses to deal with as his agents to the world.

The key phrase there is "Bronze Age man... wrote it." The Bible was indeed written by uneducated fishermen. Regardless of where they claim to be getting their "inspiration," their limited ability to comprehend knowledge or accurately transcribe the "teachings" should render the Bible all but worthless.


Quote: Just 1 God. But we know him as the Trinity three in one: Eternal Father, Eternally Begetting the Son, Eternally emanating power through the Holy Spirit. (Plus, let's not forget all the Host of Heaven to whom God was addressing his comments).

The Bible refers many times to the other gods and how the biblical god is the more powerful one. It's a competition against the other believed gods of the time period.



Quote:-Even though they say that God only "rested" to set an example of how would should rest on the 7th day, couldn't the Bible just say "rest on Sunday" ??(question mark)? It clearly says God rested, which means that this all-powerful being was worn out from all those valleys and hills and Wyoming and platypuses.

Wow, Please don't ever use this argument with a Bible-believing Christan and lose them with your over the top sarcasm. This verse is not about God being tired. It is not even about God "modelling" Sabbath Keeping. God's rest on the 7th day beautifully signifies the completion of God's work. Jesus would have to utter these words again someday because of the Fall, but at that moment in time, God was able to look at his creation and say, "It is finished." His work of creation was perfect and good. And thus, by the way, the reason why Evolution is obviously a tool of the devil. Because God rested and showed his work was done, there can be no such thing as evolution on a macro level and that's why dinosaurs and humans lived together before the Flood.

See, this is when the troll alarm in my heads begins to flash. The reason you know every detail of god's intentions is because god exists only in your imagination, so it's quite easy to ascribe a personality and desires to him. However, if you ask 1000 Christians why god rested (and remember they all worship the same deity), they will give you 1000 different, personal renditions of what "god" wants.



Quote:So... WHY did he put them near the tree? WHY did he have that which he didn't want humans to attain be edible and tempting? WHY did he leave? WHY did he allow Satan the Snake to be in the garden, knowing full well that he would tempt them? Why did God design these 2 humans to be susceptible to temptation?

Way too easy to answer: God has given us freewill. He already had the angels, who were created just a little lower than humankind. They did not have the same sort of freedom that he gave us (although we have to somehow understand how Lucifer had freewill to fight against God and be cast from heaven). Now, in Humanity, God has the crown jewel of his creation: a creature who has complete free will. How can you test free will? If you put no tests in front of a person, you'll just have blind obedience. God does not want blind obedience. He wants you to choose him by your own freewill.

This argument has been addressed before. First, god was the one who designed us. Everything about us. Which means that god made us susceptible to temptation. He knew exactly what we would choose before we were born. If god didn't want me to be an atheist, then why did he design me with an affinity for logic and a rebellious nature towards the majority? And like I said before, if god was truly a "loving father figure," why would he even present us with the possibility of hell and eternal torture. If I had a child, I wouldn't leave him alone with a bucket of razor blades with the hope that he'll choose NOT to play with them. I would remove temptation in the first place like an actual loving father.



Quote:Then God comes strolling by (3:8 "walking in the garden in the cool of the day") at the PRECISE moment after they eat the fruit and goes "whoa whoa, what's going on here?" (I'm paraphrasing, of course)

You're missing the beauty of this verse. God...the Almighty Creator of the Universe is not some Deistic idea of a watchmaker god who builds and goes away. God is With Us...Later to become the Name of the Messiah, Jesus Immanuel: God is With us. Almighty God walking in the Garden in the cool of the day to meet with his children like he had done on so many days before. And of course Omniscient God knew what had happened, but this is story telling at it's best. You don't go in guns blazing. This is a teachable moment for these naughty children. And yeah, the rest of history is going to be rough, but it is HIStory and even in that moment of casting them out of paradise, God had already set in motion a plan to bring his children home through the sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus, to mend the rift between God and Humankind that had been caused by disobedience.

You didn't say a single worthwhile thing in this entire paragraph.



Quote:Cain slays Abel and is "cast out" arbitrarily from one remote location of this empty world to another random remote location. Then he worries that "every one that findeth me shall slay me."

-This is a strange worry since he is 1 of 3 people in existence. Then he sleeps with his wife to start the incestual chain of humanity... but where did his wife come from?

You're obviously not reading the text. Genesis goes on to say that Adam and Eve had other children, including daughters. Don't forget, they lived hundreds of years so the population would have a chance to grow. Yes, it is a bit disconcerting to think that the first couple of generations of humanity had to be incestuous, but there really wasn't any problem then. The "bloodlines" were pure so there was no fear of genetic mutation for 2-3 generations. (Now is your chance to POUNCE on the Bible Believer by pointing out the incest of Noah and his daughters was also done to re-populate the earth. But they were already quite a few generations away from Adam and Eve, so this would clearly lead to genetic problems. Lot and his daughters essentially have the same story later...evidence that many authors had their hand in writing the first 5 books, not just Moses by himself).

You're right. One of us isn't reading the text. Cain and Abel are born in Gen 4:1-4:2. Cain claims that everyone will slay him in Gen 4:14. If you can find anything within those passages that mentions more siblings, please quote them. In fact, the REASON that Adam has a 3rd child is to replace Abel, as stated in this passage:

4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.



Quote:6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days"

-I'm assuming these are literal giants and not "intellectual giants" or some modern term.

Yeah, dude, where do you think Goliath came from? Duh. The text says the Sons of God Fucked the Daughters of Men. Simple arithmetic: Demon Sperm + Virginal Ovum = Nephilim (giants). Duh.

Then the Lord decides that all humanity is corrupt and needs to be massacred via flood.

-One... why the need for an elaborate flood? Why not just use your God powers and make every one not exist? You can only create from nothing, not turn into nothing? Two, were we not already told that men were made in His image? So either God is evil and corrupt, which is why we turned out like we did before and after the flood... or he is incapable of creating things how he wants. God is a flawed designer.

Did you not get the message about Demon Spawn taking over the earth? The bloodlines had to be kept pure. Oh, by the way, this is one of my favorite late-night AM radio show conspiratorial whack job theory: Aliens came to earth and began meddling with human/alien DNA, creating all sorts of mutants and hybrids. Things got out of hand and their only recourse was to destroy everyone and start over (This makes way more sense to me than God and the freewill gig).

Annnnnnnd this is where my troll alarm goes haywire. Demon seeds and giants and aliens.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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17-11-2011, 02:45 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Fair enough. I'm with BC. Maybe not troll but definitely not critical enough with the thought.

Just a side note on "free will" since it's the thing that theists are so find of chucking out any time one of us humans does something bad. To refute the idea of free will through god I like to use another theist favorite that seems to never be used for this argument. If free will, then how could go have a plan for us? If god has a plan for us then how is there free will? Also what BC said.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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17-11-2011, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2011 03:03 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Not trolling, just not well known yet.

I'm a former Baptist minister who when he gets high is able to channel his former self and tell you that a True Believer who heard these remarks would think you were naive when it comes to understanding God's Word. Don't you know that the Bible is God's Love Letter to his children? You don't get it because you're not one of his people yet. That's what you get for reading other people's mail if you can't understand his truth.

Now, reality check...they're the naive ones when it comes to understanding reality.

But, after having been an atheist for only a short time, I'm amazed at how little real information is out there in the Atheist Community about Biblical Interpretation. Your comments and questions are all valid on a common sense level, but to the True Believer, there are perfectly "logical" answers to your objections about God's Word. My responses are exactly what you would hear from a Bible Believing Christian. You're going to think they're crazy. They're going to think you're ignorant of the Truth. Somehow we have to be better than we are at bridging the language gap between "us" and "them" so we can have more effective dialog than trying to call each other names and ridicule each other.

And that's just one humble person's opinion.
(17-11-2011 02:04 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  You didn't say a single worthwhile thing in this entire paragraph.

And now you understand my point exactly.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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18-11-2011, 03:45 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
Ah. I understand you now. Sort of a devil's advocate, only in this case it's god's advocate.

I'm not worried. This critique is intended more for atheists and normal people who are ignorant to what the Bible actually says. If my intent was to demonstrate the Bible's fallible nature to the faithful, it would be an exercise in pure futility. You can't refute faith with logic, because that's the whole purpose of faith; suspension of reality to more easily make your hopes believable.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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18-11-2011, 07:11 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
[Image: 1_Peter.jpeg]



1st and 2nd Peter are written by Saint Peter (yes, THAT Saint Peter... "you are the rock upon which I will build my church" Peter) and written to various churches who were suffering religious persecution. As usual... the authorship is up for debate, since Acts 4:13 claims St Peter was illiterate.



1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

-Hoist up your brain penis and hope for a quick death to faster reach the magic cloud city, so sayeth St Peter.



1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


-Fucking poetic, Peter. The flesh and glories of man pass away. Though I don't know about the eternal word thing. Throughout the dozens of translations, alterations, and straight up omissions, the word of the Lord barely resembles its original form.



2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.


-Pete, you're really hit or miss with these sayings. Don't abuse your liberties for malicious acts, hit. Serve God, miss. Honor all men and love thy brother, hit. Fear God, honor the king... really big miss. I don't see how embracing a monarchy has anything to do with God.



2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:


-More Christian praising of suffering and sacrifice. Slaves, endure your shitty life and be fearful, because Christ suffered to set an example. This sounds suspiciously like Monty Python. Cast off the shoe, follow the gourd! We should all grow beards and actively seek to be crucified, for Christ did such to set an example!



[Image: biblemorality.jpg?w=400&h=329]



3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;


-Another shining example of misogyny in the NT. Women should be obedient to their husbands, fearful, and wear humble clothing. You are objects to be instructed on how to behave.



3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in you hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

-This verse should be known by all atheists, ready to deploy in the case that a theist refuses to debate with you.



4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.


-Suffer suffer suffer. And smile while doing it. The Flagellants during the Black Plague were doing it right.



[Image: Flagellants.png]

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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