An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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28-04-2012, 10:17 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2012 10:37 AM by Erxomai.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Image: THISGONBGUD.gif]

Thank God I'm no longer so naive. I feel as if I could have written everything ZeusTalk has written. Straw-manning YouTube and Wiki and then providing spurious sources that only evangelicals will attest to being "solid scholarship."

You want scholarship, young padawan?
Brevard S. Childs
  • The Book of Exodus: A Critical, Theological Commentary (1974)
  • Introduction to the Old Testament as Scripture (1979)
  • Old Testament Theology in a Canonical Context (1985)
  • Biblical Theology of the Old and New Testaments: Theological Reflection on the Christian Bible (1992)
Elizabeth Schussler Fiorenza
  • The Power of the Word: Scripture and the Rhetoric of Empire (Fortress Press, 2007)
Julius Wellhausen
  • PROLEGOMENA TO THE HISTORY OF ANCIENT ISRAEL
Gerhard von Rad
  • Genesis, A commentary
Bernard W. Anderson
  • Understanding the Old Testament
  • Old Testament Theology: Volume I: The Theology of Israel's Historical Traditions
Obviously I can go on...but I know you won't touch these scholarly works because your faith has clouded your reason. It's okay. I'm not a vitriolic atheist. I've been in your shoes. You'll either see the light, or you won't. Either way, we'll end up in the same place...the Void.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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28-04-2012, 11:09 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(28-04-2012 10:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Image: THISGONBGUD.gif]

Thank God I'm no longer so naive. I feel as if I could have written everything ZeusTalk has written. Straw-manning YouTube and Wiki and then providing spurious sources that only evangelicals will attest to being "solid scholarship."

You want scholarship, young padawan?
Brevard S. Childs
  • The Book of Exodus: A Critical, Theological Commentary (1974)
  • Introduction to the Old Testament as Scripture (1979)
  • Old Testament Theology in a Canonical Context (1985)
  • Biblical Theology of the Old and New Testaments: Theological Reflection on the Christian Bible (1992)
Elizabeth Schussler Fiorenza
  • The Power of the Word: Scripture and the Rhetoric of Empire (Fortress Press, 2007)
Julius Wellhausen
  • PROLEGOMENA TO THE HISTORY OF ANCIENT ISRAEL
Gerhard von Rad
  • Genesis, A commentary
Bernard W. Anderson
  • Understanding the Old Testament
  • Old Testament Theology: Volume I: The Theology of Israel's Historical Traditions
Obviously I can go on...but I know you won't touch these scholarly works because your faith has clouded your reason. It's okay. I'm not a vitriolic atheist. I've been in your shoes. You'll either see the light, or you won't. Either way, we'll end up in the same place...the Void.
Actually I've read some of Childs works, especially his canonical approach to reading the Bible which is to say that one should read a text in light of the entire canon of Scripture, not just cherry pick verses here and there as most opponents of the Bible love to do.

I can play this game too though:
  • John Sailhamer: OT Theology
  • John Sailhamer: The Meaning of the Pentateuch
  • Geerhardus Vos: Biblical Theology
  • G.K. Beale: A New Testament Biblical Theology: The Unfolding of the OT in the New
  • G.E. Mendenhall: Law & Covenant in Israel and the Ancient Near East
  • Karl Barth: The Gottingen Dogmatics
  • Meredith Kline: The Structure of Biblical Authority
  • Kevin Vanhoozer: The Drama of Doctrine
  • D.A. Carson: Scripture and Truth
  • Athanasius: On the Incarnation
  • B.B. Warfield: The Person and Work of Christ; Biblical and Theological Studies; The Plan of Salvation
  • Mark Thompson: A Clear and Present Word: The Clarity of Scripture
So i'm not sure why you are citing those biblical scholars other than the fact that some of them are liberal, don't believe in the inspiration or authority of the Bible, and reject the claims of Christ. Ooooooooooo.......I had no idea that there were "scholars" out there that in the name of the Bible actually attack the historicity and authority of the Bible. I HAD NO IDEA...... Sadcryface2 Oh NO! What am I going to do that an unbelieving secularist is trying to discount 2000 years of church history and record?!?!?!? Tongue


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28-04-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(28-04-2012 11:09 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  Oh NO! What am I going to do that an unbelieving secularist is trying to discount 2000 years of church history and record?!?!?!? Tongue
Oh, I see you're here for serious discussion. Got it. Consider

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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28-04-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(28-04-2012 11:09 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  Oh NO! What am I going to do that an unbelieving secularist is trying to discount 2000 years of church history and record?!?!?!? Tongue


The contrary. No discounting here, only highlighting the truth.
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29-04-2012, 04:08 AM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2012 04:11 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(28-04-2012 11:09 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 10:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Image: THISGONBGUD.gif]

Thank God I'm no longer so naive. I feel as if I could have written everything ZeusTalk has written. Straw-manning YouTube and Wiki and then providing spurious sources that only evangelicals will attest to being "solid scholarship."

You want scholarship, young padawan?
Brevard S. Childs
  • The Book of Exodus: A Critical, Theological Commentary (1974)
  • Introduction to the Old Testament as Scripture (1979)
  • Old Testament Theology in a Canonical Context (1985)
  • Biblical Theology of the Old and New Testaments: Theological Reflection on the Christian Bible (1992)
Elizabeth Schussler Fiorenza
  • The Power of the Word: Scripture and the Rhetoric of Empire (Fortress Press, 2007)
Julius Wellhausen
  • PROLEGOMENA TO THE HISTORY OF ANCIENT ISRAEL
Gerhard von Rad
  • Genesis, A commentary
Bernard W. Anderson
  • Understanding the Old Testament
  • Old Testament Theology: Volume I: The Theology of Israel's Historical Traditions
Obviously I can go on...but I know you won't touch these scholarly works because your faith has clouded your reason. It's okay. I'm not a vitriolic atheist. I've been in your shoes. You'll either see the light, or you won't. Either way, we'll end up in the same place...the Void.
Actually I've read some of Childs works, especially his canonical approach to reading the Bible which is to say that one should read a text in light of the entire canon of Scripture, not just cherry pick verses here and there as most opponents of the Bible love to do.

I can play this game too though:
  • John Sailhamer: OT Theology
  • John Sailhamer: The Meaning of the Pentateuch
  • Geerhardus Vos: Biblical Theology
  • G.K. Beale: A New Testament Biblical Theology: The Unfolding of the OT in the New
  • G.E. Mendenhall: Law & Covenant in Israel and the Ancient Near East
  • Karl Barth: The Gottingen Dogmatics
  • Meredith Kline: The Structure of Biblical Authority
  • Kevin Vanhoozer: The Drama of Doctrine
  • D.A. Carson: Scripture and Truth
  • Athanasius: On the Incarnation
  • B.B. Warfield: The Person and Work of Christ; Biblical and Theological Studies; The Plan of Salvation
  • Mark Thompson: A Clear and Present Word: The Clarity of Scripture
So i'm not sure why you are citing those biblical scholars other than the fact that some of them are liberal, don't believe in the inspiration or authority of the Bible, and reject the claims of Christ. Ooooooooooo.......I had no idea that there were "scholars" out there that in the name of the Bible actually attack the historicity and authority of the Bible. I HAD NO IDEA...... Sadcryface2 Oh NO! What am I going to do that an unbelieving secularist is trying to discount 2000 years of church history and record?!?!?!? Tongue


Wow! Have a look at what all these esteemed authors do for a living!


John Sailhamer is an evangelical Old Testament scholar.


Geerhardus Voswas an American Calvinist theologian


G K Beale is a Christian scholar


George Emery Mendenhall (born August 13, 1916) is a theologian


Karl Barth was a Swiss theologian


Meredith Kline was an American theologian


Kevin J. Vanhoozer (born 1957) is Blanchard Professor of Theology


D.A. Carson is Research Professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield


B. B. Warfield. Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (November 5, 1851 – February 16 , 1921) was professor of theology at
Princeton Seminary from 1887 to 1921



The Rev Dr Mark Thompson is Head of Department of Theology, Philosophy and Ethics Lectures in
Theology and Church History

I think you have just given us a glimpse into your depraved little world. All you read about religion are the works of theologians! What a fucked up little universe your head lives in!

Theology is the study of the nature of god. It has to accept that scripture is divinely inspired; if it doesn't there is nothing to discuss, no churches and no theology departments in universities. They're not going to shoot themselves in the foot. They're also not going to be too keen to discuss real history...that is shaky ground because it results in serious questions about the sources of scripture. Its much safer to just assume scripture is inspired. These theologians are all part of the gravy train; they wallow in so called academia. It's not their job to ask REAL questions about the bible...if they did that they would lose their jobs. They are usually supported financially by churches. It sounds to me like you are being groomed to join the club.


Dude...seriously....you need to read the works of real scholars...people (often Christians or Jews) who are not attached to theology departments and who don't earn a living from the church. Otherwise you are just going round and round in circles.
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29-04-2012, 07:02 AM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2012 01:48 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(28-04-2012 11:09 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  The Meaning of the Pentateuch.

So i'm not sure why you are citing those biblical scholars other than the fact that some of them are liberal, don't believe in the inspiration or authority of the Bible, and reject the claims of Christ.

Ooooooooooo.......I had no idea that there were "scholars" out there that in the name of the Bible actually attack the historicity and authority of the Bible. I HAD NO IDEA...... Sadcryface2 Oh NO! What am I going to do that an unbelieving secularist is trying to discount 2000 years of church history and record?!?!?!?



Nice try. Try try again.

My favorite debunkers of the bible are the Jewish philospoher Martin Buber, (Good and Evil), and the Lutheran theologian, Rudolph Bultman, (Jesus Christ and Mythology). They do so, without either attempting to do it, or intending to do it. At least my list is not 100 % proof of the "confirmation bias" phenomenon, which your's is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Your sarcastic use of both the Argumentum ad Populum, and the Argumentum ad Verecundiam is a double fail. Beyond the sarcasm, you said NOT ONE THING. Because a delusion has persisted for 2000 years, makes it no less a delusion. Man believed the world was flat for a lot longer. (See how that works ?).






(28-04-2012 09:43 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  Ya blah, blah, blah I know there's some obscure YouTube video that some atheist kid made in his dorm after sitting in some secular philosophy or anthropology class that "completely blew his mind..." Ya I get it BB--nice citation of Wikipedia there too, btw, you know since WIKI says it it must be true.... Thumbsup

Utter failure. It makes no difference whether it's said in a Harvard classroom, Union Seminary, Tubingen (University), the Vatican, Jerusalem, the Mormon Temple, Constantinople, Lourdes, Wikipedia, Clairvaux Monastery, YouTube, Oral Roberts University, PS99, or my barns. The ONLY thing that matters, is whether it's true or not. So instead of evading the question by attacking the location, (Red Herring Fallacy) you'll have to actually address the questions. We did notice you had not even attempted to discuss where exactly the history in the Yahweh video was in error. We're waiting. The fact that it took "a kid on YouTube" to effectively expose the complete nonsence that the entire fallacy of the Yahweh cult, (monotheism) is built upon, and the way it's lied about, in conventional "orthodoxy" so pisses off you "professionals", and is such a huge threat to you, you can't, and won't, even attempt to address the isses raised there, and HAVE to attempt deflection, as your only impotent response, as there is no rebuttal. His analysis is sound, and if it isn't tell us where he if off base, exactly. Also, your false dichotomy implied by the pejorative use of the word "secular" does not fly, and is only another Red Herring. There is only reality.

The fact that there were Semites in Egypt is irrelevant. The fact that Genesis distorts the history is NOT irrelevant. Perhaps you can begin your cult deprogramming process here : http://video.pbs.org/video/1051895565/ PBS. (And don't bother to attempt "deflection by location" again ... if you have specific arguments, let's hear them).

BTW, thanks for debunking the authority of the Pentateuch, by showing it's very similar to it's cultural antecedants, and not unique in any way, thus not "inspired". As for the "vitrioloc atheist" (feeble attempt at Argumentum ad Hominem), thing goes...nah, you're just intimidated, as you know you can't STICK to the point, and make an argument. But thank you. Since the definition of "vitriolic" is "scathing", (or bitter), I'm sorry, (but flattered), you feel/admit my criticisms are scathing. As for bitter, you have never met me. So,.... the charitable christians, start name calling, in Paschaltide. Amazing. Entirely not unexpected. More deflection. You have a whole thread waiting for you over on your other thread, which you have not even attempted to answer yet. No TV before your homework. Nice repeated attempt at deflection.


Please explain, in very specific terms, the neuro-physiological mechanism for "inspiration". and while you're at it, maybe try disputing the fact that the entire theology of your cult is built on the fallacious construct, (now debunked), known as "free will ".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM

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29-04-2012, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2012 06:57 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(29-04-2012 07:02 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 11:09 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  The Meaning of the Pentateuch.

So i'm not sure why you are citing those biblical scholars other than the fact that some of them are liberal, don't believe in the inspiration or authority of the Bible, and reject the claims of Christ.

Ooooooooooo.......I had no idea that there were "scholars" out there that in the name of the Bible actually attack the historicity and authority of the Bible. I HAD NO IDEA...... Sadcryface2 Oh NO! What am I going to do that an unbelieving secularist is trying to discount 2000 years of church history and record?!?!?!?



Bucky, just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your razor sharp mind. A post such as the above takes effort. We all (well, most of us) learn from it. Thanks!
Nice try. Try try again.

My favorite debunkers of the bible are the Jewish philospoher Martin Buber, (Good and Evil), and the Lutheran theologian, Rudolph Bultman, (Jesus Christ and Mythology). They do so, without either attempting to do it, or intending to do it. At least my list is not 100 % proof of the "confirmation bias" phenomenon, which your's is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Your sarcastic use of both the Argumentum ad Populum, and the Argumentum ad Verecundiam is a double fail. Beyond the sarcasm, you said NOT ONE THING. Because a delusion has persisted for 2000 years, makes it no less a delusion. Man believed the world was flat for a lot longer. (See how that works ?).






(28-04-2012 09:43 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  Ya blah, blah, blah I know there's some obscure YouTube video that some atheist kid made in his dorm after sitting in some secular philosophy or anthropology class that "completely blew his mind..." Ya I get it BB--nice citation of Wikipedia there too, btw, you know since WIKI says it it must be true.... Thumbsup


Utter failure. It makes no difference whether it's said in a Harvard classroom, Union Seminary, Tubingen, the Vatican, Jerusalem, the Mormon Temple, Constantinople, Lourdes, Wikipedia, Clairvaux Monastery, YouTube, Oral Roberts University, PS99, or my barns. The ONLY thing that matters, is whether it's true or not. So instead of evading the question by attacking the location, (Red Herring Fallacy) you'll have to actually address the questions. We did notice you had not even attemted to discuss where exactly the history in the Yahweh video was in error. We're waiting. The fact that it took "a kid on YouTube" to effectively expose the complete nonsence that the entire fallacy of the Yahweh cult, (monotheism) is built upon, and the way it's lied about, in conventional "orthodoxy" so pisses off you "professionals", and is such a huge threat to you, you can't, and won't, even attempt to address the isses raised there, and HAVE to attempt deflection, as your only impotent response, as there is no rebuttal. His analysis is sound, and if it isn't tell us where he if off base, exactly. Also, your false dichotomy implied by the pejorative use of the word "secular" does not fly, and is only another Red Herring. There is only reality.

The fact that there were Semites in Egypt is irrelevant. The fact that Genesis distorts the history is NOT irrelevant. Perhaps you can begin your cult deprogramming process here : http://video.pbs.org/video/1051895565/ PBS. (And don't bother to attempt "defection by location" again ... if you have specific arguments, let's hear them).

BTW, thanks for debunking the authority of the Pentateuch, by showing it's very similar to it's cultural antecedants, and not unique in any way, thus not "inspired". As for the "vitrioloc atheist" (feeble attempt at Argumentum ad Hominem), thing goes...nah, you're just intimidated, as you know you can't STICK to the point, and make an argument. But thank you. Since the definition of "vitriolic" is "scathing, (or bitter), I'm sorry you feel/admit my criticisms are scathing. As for bitter, you have never met me. So, the charitable christians, start name calling, in Paschaltide. Amazing. Entirely not unexpected. More deflection. You have a whole thread waiting for you over on your other thread, which you have not even attempted to answer yet. No TV before your homework. Nice repeated attempt at deflection.


Please explain, in very specific terms, the neuro-physiological mechanism for "inspiration". and while you're at it, maybe try disputing the fact that the entire theology of your cult is built on the fallacious construct, (now debunked), known as "free will ".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM


Bucky, just want you to know how much I appreciate your razor sharp commentary. A post like this takes effort. We all (well, nearly all), learn from it. Thanks
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30-07-2012, 12:46 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
This was great!! Any plans for a critique of the Quran? Big Grin
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02-08-2012, 11:24 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(30-07-2012 12:46 PM)xieulong Wrote:  This was great!! Any plans for a critique of the Quran? Big Grin

I tried that. The problem with the Koran is that there's very little false pretense about the nature of Islam. Though a few will claim it is a religion of peace, the rest of the world is very aware that ultimate faith in Islam leads to murder and martyrdom. How am I supposed to mock a text that says, "All nonbelievers are infidels and will be destroyed in the global jihad! Muhahahahaha!"

It's self-mocking.



And update #21938, the book is written, the cover is done, a few finishing touches and within a month, the world will know my genius/madness. If any of you still care, I plan on making an annoyingly big deal about the release. It will feel great to respond to people arguing religion by referring them to my book, self-published or not.

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03-08-2012, 07:49 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible
(02-08-2012 11:24 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  And update #21938, the book is written, the cover is done, a few finishing touches and within a month, the world will know my genius/madness. If any of you still care, I plan on making an annoyingly big deal about the release. It will feel great to respond to people arguing religion by referring them to my book, self-published or not.

I absolutely want an autographed first edition.Smartass

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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