An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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12-12-2013, 06:32 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2013 06:39 PM by Alla.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  It's very convenient to have the benefit of hindsight. Moses didn't know about the universe.
Probably, but he knew something about part of the universe. What ever God showed to him he knew. I am not sure he could comprehend everything.

(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  When Genesis was written, the earth and sky were all anyone knew about. That's why it says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth" - because the heavens was the sky and earth and sky were everything. The intention of that passage was in the beginning (of everything), God created everything which at first was the earth and heavens.
Moses didn't say that in the beginning God created everything.
Moses never said that heavens is everything(all infinite space)
Moses never said that God created light. Never.
Moses never said that "beginning" is absolute beginning od absolutely everything.
Construction: In the beginning I lay foundation than I build walls and roof. Did I talk about absolute beginning? do you have to assume that I have never build other houses?
In the beginning of creating our world(part of infinite space) God created earth and heaven than He created the rest(everything that is in them).

(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Light did not yet exist anywhere. So when God said "Let there be light", he created it right then. If you're going to believe in something, you really should understand it. Dodgy
You may assume that light didn't exist before God said "Let there be light" but you have no basis for that.

I say that God didn't create light because Moses didn't say that God created light but He created earth, heavens and everything that in them. And Moses didn't say how big heavens are.
May be God showed to Moses only our galaxy and this is what God and Moses called "heavens"?
Is our galaxy the only galaxy in infinite space? is there light in other galaxies?

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13-12-2013, 09:31 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(12-12-2013 06:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  It's very convenient to have the benefit of hindsight. Moses didn't know about the universe.
Probably, but he knew something about part of the universe. What ever God showed to him he knew. I am not sure he could comprehend everything.

So, when humans use our powers of observation, and build off of the findings of others, we can do stuff like see stars in other galaxies, put functioning telecom satellites in orbit, and put people and rovers on the moon and Mars. Yet, when we communicate directly to God, we end up with a (conveniently) bronze-age understanding of how "the heavens" work?

What's the point? Apparently God is the worst person at conveying information ever. From the Sin thread, you've stated that God had to use a cursed tree to teach people about good and evil, and he can't even consistently use the word "day" in a way that anyone can parse.

Your god has even more limitations than the "normal" Old Testament version of God. Color me unimpressed.
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13-12-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(13-12-2013 09:31 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, when humans use our powers of observation, and build off of the findings of others, we can do stuff like see stars in other galaxies, put functioning telecom satellites in orbit, and put people and rovers on the moon and Mars. Yet, when we communicate directly to God, we end up with a (conveniently) bronze-age understanding of how "the heavens" work?
God doesn't communicate to His children to explain to them how heavens work. In other words He doesn't teach natural laws. He only teaches His judicial laws and He also revealed who caused heavens to work.
God will not tell HIs children about how heavens work because He knows that we can do it without His help. But without Him we can not know who caused heavens to work and we can not know His judicial laws.

P.S. If you can not do something I can help you. But if you can do something on your own you don't need my help.
The same with God. He teaches only those things that we can not find out on our own. But for sure we can study heavens and we do pretty good job.


P.P.S. Moses never claimed
Size of heavens
that God created light
that God created absolutely everything
that "beginning" is absolute beginning of absolutely everything
that Adam was organized on Earth
that Adam was the first human God EVER organized
that Adam had no ancestors. Opposite Adam was created in the image and likeness of one of them. Who are "one of them"?

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14-12-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(13-12-2013 02:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 09:31 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, when humans use our powers of observation, and build off of the findings of others, we can do stuff like see stars in other galaxies, put functioning telecom satellites in orbit, and put people and rovers on the moon and Mars. Yet, when we communicate directly to God, we end up with a (conveniently) bronze-age understanding of how "the heavens" work?
God doesn't communicate to His children to explain to them how heavens work. In other words He doesn't teach natural laws. He only teaches His judicial laws and He also revealed who caused heavens to work.
God will not tell HIs children about how heavens work because He knows that we can do it without His help. But without Him we can not know who caused heavens to work and we can not know His judicial laws.

And yet, he does a terrible job of that, too. Take a look at the number of Christian sects out there, all in disagreement on what God's word actually means. Seriously: worst communicator ever.


(13-12-2013 02:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.P.S. Moses never claimed

We don't have any evidence that Moses even existed. Earlier, you told someone that you can't argue what Moses said, but you can argue about what is written in Genesis. Do that, instead.
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14-12-2013, 01:41 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(14-12-2013 09:42 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  And yet, he does a terrible job of that, too. Take a look at the number of Christian sects out there, all in disagreement on what God's word actually means. Seriously: worst communicator ever.
They are NOT His Church. They are NOT His people. All of them DENY Him today. How? They say that everything that God wanted to tell His children is in the Bible and will be no more revelations. If God sends a Prophet/Prophets today to teach them what He really said through the ancient Prophets they will reject that Prophet/those prophets. God said that those who rejects those whom He sends reject Him.
They say: "the Bible, the Bible, we have got the Bible and we need NO more Scriptures". They will reject every new word that God would say to them TODAY.
This is what they do(reject new revelations) that is why Spirit doesn't teach them.

(14-12-2013 09:42 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  We don't have any evidence that Moses even existed. Earlier, you told someone that you can't argue what Moses said, but you can argue about what is written in Genesis. Do that, instead.
Sure. I can do this. I can not argue with you that Moses even existed but I can argue with you about what is written in the book. And I do this.
According to the book Moses didn't claim what some people assume he claimed.

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14-12-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(10-12-2013 02:03 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Moses never said that light was created.
Yes he did. It was done on the first day, according to Genesis 1:

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."


You need to read up on your source material if you're going to make such strong claims.


(08-12-2013 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Sun is not the only source of light.
Other stars are sources of light. Did Moses say where Earth was before Solar system was created? in what part of Universe?
According to Genesis 1, God created the plants on the third day, and the sun, the moon, and all the stars on the fourth day.

"11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."


While stars are other sources of light (assuming the earth were, for some reason, in a different solar system), they still weren't around when there was vegetation.


(08-12-2013 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Is there light where there is God? God is Light, says the Bible.


Well, again, Gen 1:1 says it was dark and God had to create the light, so regardless of whether or not God radiates actual light, it's irrelevant. Also, it'd doubtful that he does (at least not all the time), because the Bible posits that God is among us, and we are capable of turning out the lights and not seeing him.


(08-12-2013 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  He is also on of the sources of light. So are you.

You're mixing and matching your terms of light. You can't refer to "light" as in what plants need to survive and then switch to using "light" to mean "sources of virtue" or whatever symbolic sense you mean. We obviously, observably do not glow in the dark.


That is as far as I got through that post.

Nice one, Robby.

Now we have An Atheist's Critique of A Theist's Critique of An Atheist's Critique of the Bible

Alla,
I'm curious... were you home-schooled?

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14-12-2013, 02:45 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(14-12-2013 02:39 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Alla,
I'm curious... were you home-schooled?
No, I was not.
Why do you ask this question?

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14-12-2013, 11:07 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(12-12-2013 06:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  It's very convenient to have the benefit of hindsight. Moses didn't know about the universe.
Probably, but he knew something about part of the universe. What ever God showed to him he knew. I am not sure he could comprehend everything.

(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  When Genesis was written, the earth and sky were all anyone knew about. That's why it says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth" - because the heavens was the sky and earth and sky were everything. The intention of that passage was in the beginning (of everything), God created everything which at first was the earth and heavens.
Moses didn't say that in the beginning God created everything.
Moses never said that heavens is everything(all infinite space)
Moses never said that God created light. Never.
Moses never said that "beginning" is absolute beginning od absolutely everything.
Construction: In the beginning I lay foundation than I build walls and roof. Did I talk about absolute beginning? do you have to assume that I have never build other houses?
In the beginning of creating our world(part of infinite space) God created earth and heaven than He created the rest(everything that is in them).

(12-12-2013 05:06 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Light did not yet exist anywhere. So when God said "Let there be light", he created it right then. If you're going to believe in something, you really should understand it. Dodgy
You may assume that light didn't exist before God said "Let there be light" but you have no basis for that.

I say that God didn't create light because Moses didn't say that God created light but He created earth, heavens and everything that in them. And Moses didn't say how big heavens are.
May be God showed to Moses only our galaxy and this is what God and Moses called "heavens"?
Is our galaxy the only galaxy in infinite space? is there light in other galaxies?

God was simply telling Uncle Moses (husband to Aunt Jemima) the best recipe for Light fluffy pancakes. God looked around and saw only high calorie monstrosities and in his exasperation proclaimed, "Oh let there be Light fluffy pancakes for once!" Now some of the text was missing when recovered in the Lost Syrup Scrolls and of course mistranslated by the obese clergy based on their whims. Also Constantine was a diabetic and actively sought to mislead with his own translations.

"In the beginning" merely refers to the start date of your diet. Space and time are "created" in your new diet schedule - make space in your stomach and set aside some time for these new heavenly low-cal pancakes.

Do you see what you can come up with when everything is figurative and words mean what you want them to?


P.S. You may not have been home-schooled, but were you home-indoctrinated?

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14-12-2013, 11:19 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Moses never existed. There are many inconsistencies and things in the Pentateuch that prove he never could have written it. It was, (a few centuries ago), one of the first things that was questioned, when scholars figured out the OT could not have been written by Moses. The Bible was assembled during the Exile, and brought back by Ezra, along with the Persian Imperative from Artaxerxes, LONG after Moses was said to have existed. He only was important in the traditions of the Northern Kingdom, (which is why he was made to look bad during the Exodus) a few times.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s

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15-12-2013, 09:05 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(14-12-2013 01:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(14-12-2013 09:42 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  And yet, he does a terrible job of that, too. Take a look at the number of Christian sects out there, all in disagreement on what God's word actually means. Seriously: worst communicator ever.
They are NOT His Church. They are NOT His people. All of them DENY Him today. How? They say that everything that God wanted to tell His children is in the Bible and will be no more revelations. If God sends a Prophet/Prophets today to teach them what He really said through the ancient Prophets they will reject that Prophet/those prophets. God said that those who rejects those whom He sends reject Him.
They say: "the Bible, the Bible, we have got the Bible and we need NO more Scriptures". They will reject every new word that God would say to them TODAY.
This is what they do(reject new revelations) that is why Spirit doesn't teach them.

Did you ever consider that the reason people reject them is because of a lack of evidence, and not because they hate God and are just being big, mean meanie-heads?
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