An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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19-12-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(18-12-2013 09:06 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Also, the church is crazy secretive about some of their inner teachings. Beyond that, I don't know much.
Not at all, there are no any secretive inner teachings. Honestly.

(18-12-2013 09:06 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, is that the whole thing? Did black people come from Ham, or something?
Not all black people come from Cain/Ham. Not all.

(18-12-2013 09:06 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I could have sworn I heard this from somewhere before, and I wasn't sure if it was an LDS belief or not. It's ironic that we're talking about this, because I just recently read that just this month, the church of LDS officially redacted the notion that dark skin signifies a curse. Were you aware of this?
I knew that dark skin was a mark and a curse. It is written in the Book of Mormon. And Book of Mormon was published in 1829.

(18-12-2013 09:06 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Just so you know, I'm seriously not poking fun, or anything. It's just, now that I know you're basing your beliefs on several books that I know next to nothing about....
It is never too late to learn about it. I can help.Big Grin

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20-12-2013, 12:23 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(19-12-2013 05:00 PM)Alla Wrote:  Not all black people come from Cain/Ham. Not all.

I knew that dark skin was a mark and a curse. It is written in the Book of Mormon. And Book of Mormon was published in 1829.

Alla,
Did this knowledge not bother you? As a person with dark skin do you believe I am marked and cursed? If not, why not?
Doc
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20-12-2013, 12:32 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(20-12-2013 12:23 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(19-12-2013 05:00 PM)Alla Wrote:  Not all black people come from Cain/Ham. Not all.

I knew that dark skin was a mark and a curse. It is written in the Book of Mormon. And Book of Mormon was published in 1829.

Alla,
Did this knowledge not bother you? As a person with dark skin do you believe I am marked and cursed? If not, why not?
Doc
It doesn't bother me to know that evil person can be cursed and marked.
You are not cursed. Why not? Are you evil person?

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20-12-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Alla, you said:

I knew that dark skin was a mark and a curse. It is written in the Book of Mormon. And Book of Mormon was published in 1829.

It doesn't bother me to know that evil person can be cursed and marked.
You are not cursed. Why not? Are you evil person?

By your logic then, dark skin is a marker of evil. Care to elaborate?

Doc
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20-12-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Alla, I have a few questions, to make sure I'm understanding your stance:

1) Do all cursed people have dark skin?

2) Are all dark-skinned people cursed?

3) If a person becomes cursed in the middle of their life, would their skin darken?

4) Once a person is cursed, can the curse be lifted?
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20-12-2013, 07:08 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Alla, I have a few questions, to make sure I'm understanding your stance:
1) Do all cursed people have dark skin?
No. Not all cursed people have dark skin. There were plenty light skinned people who were cursed.

(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  2) Are all dark-skinned people cursed?
No.
(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  3) If a person becomes cursed in the middle of their life, would their skin darken?
No. Not any more.
It happened only BEFORE Christ.
Before Christ not all people had privilege to have Gospel. And that is why it was not allowed to mix seed. Gentiles were NOT ready to accept Gospel. If house of Israel married Gentiles they wouldn't be able to preserve their religion about God Yahweh.
After Christ/after He atoned it was time to teach the Gospel to the Gentiles. They were READY.

(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  4) Once a person is cursed, can the curse be lifted?
Yes, as soon as this person truly repents. Mark may not be taken away right away. Why? A: because mark is neither something bad nor something good. Mark really doesn't matter.
But because mix of seed is allowed after Christ cursed people with darker skin could marry people with light skin and as a result their(cursed people) children will be lighter and lighter. But really, skin color really, really doesn't matter.
Race doesn't matter.
To be different is actually a blessing and wonderful thing. If everything and everybody were the same how boring it would be.

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20-12-2013, 07:13 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(20-12-2013 03:46 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Alla, you said:

I knew that dark skin was a mark and a curse. It is written in the Book of Mormon. And Book of Mormon was published in 1829.

It doesn't bother me to know that evil person can be cursed and marked.
You are not cursed. Why not? Are you evil person?

By your logic then, dark skin is a marker of evil. Care to elaborate?

Doc
I don't think I said that dark skin is a curse. I said that dark skin is only a mark.
dark skin or mark is neither evil nor good. Mark is neutral.
But curse is - separation from God. Evil people are separated from God.

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20-12-2013, 08:05 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
I knew I was right. In a previous thread I pointed out he stinks of Mormon indoctrination in a previous thread. ... Hey Alla, I'm 37 now and have been an atheist since I was 21. Prior to that I was agnostic (in the misunderstood sense, as in on the fence) ... In my search for an answer, to the question, is there a god, from about 14 to 20, long story short, I became a baptized mormon. ... I haven't demonstrated it massively on here for a few reasons, the main one being I use my phone instead of a pc and can't be arsed to get in to massively long winded responses but I'm reasonably academic. ... I mention this because the brethren 'decided' through prayer that I was blessed with an academic gift (I read books and everything) but I was given the role on receiving my elder priesthood of clerk to the branch bishops. You probably know what that role entails. A big part of it was to be fluent in other religious doctrine to be able to counter it with the official church rebuttal and advise other church members and serving missionaries in our area with the correct retaliation to any point put to them, including the atheist position.

I knew in that other thread you were mormon, or at least had a background in it. ...
In threads you have posted in, I admittedly have been a petulant childish prick, for which I make no apology for but I say this to you now in all sincerity. The mormon church knocked me off the fence and made me an atheist. At first, for at least the first year, when you're 'golden' (do they still use that phrase it's been nearly 20 years for me) or the holy ghost is so strong you can hear it's words, that makes you so special etc; they pull you in. (Missionaries refer to this as the milk before the meat) after that you get spoon fed the history of the church in controlled amounts with the 'real' (mormon) version, followed by satan's words (the actual version) of events. They will teach you all of the counter arguments inderectly and the whole structure is based on a quite frankly excellent sales pitch structure.

You mate are in, hook, line and sinker, I've seen it before. If I'm wrong, tell me, I'll leave you alone and let you troll for LDS. IF though I'm on the money, pm me. I think you have your doubts. I bet your Bishop (or Branch leader) has no idea you post on an atheist forum and we both know the rules about socialising with non believers who aren't likely to convert! (Naughty naughty) ... I think you have your doubts. .. and you should.

Sincerely
All the best

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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20-12-2013, 08:09 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(20-12-2013 07:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Alla, I have a few questions, to make sure I'm understanding your stance:
1) Do all cursed people have dark skin?
No. Not all cursed people have dark skin. There were plenty light skinned people who were cursed.

(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  2) Are all dark-skinned people cursed?
No.
Okay. So the idea is that skin color is not in any way predictive of curses, then.


(20-12-2013 07:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 03:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  3) If a person becomes cursed in the middle of their life, would their skin darken?
No. Not any more.
It happened only BEFORE Christ.
Before Christ not all people had privilege to have Gospel. And that is why it was not allowed to mix seed. Gentiles were NOT ready to accept Gospel. If house of Israel married Gentiles they wouldn't be able to preserve their religion about God Yahweh.
After Christ/after He atoned it was time to teach the Gospel to the Gentiles. They were READY.

Now, this is where my really hazy knowledge of LDS teachings comes in. I thought I heard something about a group of people from the old world traveling to the new world, and later, Jesus came to them to teach them the truth. One group was righteous and the other was not. The righteousness people were blessed with light skin and the others were cursed with dark skin (becoming the Native Americans). Is this in anyway accurate to LDS teachings? If so, wouldn't that count as skin color indicating people being cursed after Jesus?
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20-12-2013, 08:33 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(20-12-2013 07:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 03:46 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Alla, you said:

I knew that dark skin was a mark and a curse. It is written in the Book of Mormon. And Book of Mormon was published in 1829.

It doesn't bother me to know that evil person can be cursed and marked.
You are not cursed. Why not? Are you evil person?

By your logic then, dark skin is a marker of evil. Care to elaborate?

Doc
I don't think I said that dark skin is a curse. I said that dark skin is only a mark.
dark skin or mark is neither evil nor good. Mark is neutral.
But curse is - separation from God. Evil people are separated from God.

Alla,
I quoted you. Look at your own posts and tell me that you did not say that dark sin is a curse.

Dark sin is a mark? A mark of what?

I'm beginning to smell a troll. I'm calling Ron and Hermione.

Doc
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