An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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13-01-2014, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2014 08:02 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(12-01-2014 09:22 PM)RomanNose Wrote:  
(10-01-2014 02:10 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  It was like reviewing a book on Clifford the Big Red Dog - fiction and nonsense can only breed offhand humor and mockery.

There is a big difference between reading fiction and reading the Bible, The Book of Mormon, or the Koran. If I am reading a book, let's say Star wars, I read it with the understanding that it is fiction. The caveat is that you cannot prove the non existence of something you claim doesn't exist. So for example I could not prove that Wookies in Star Wars do not exist. Now, in theory, you can look at probabilities (that are based on evidence you have gathered) to judge whether or not you deem something to be true. Obviously you cannot calculate exact probabilities but you can be fairly certain things using logic and evidence. Now did George Lucas every come out and try and argue that the things he was talking about were in dead hardcore facts. No not really, the most logical explanation is that he just used his imagination and made it up. There is some evidence that life could exist on other planets but not enough to conclude that Wookies do indeed exist (or even big red dogs).

The religious books are a different animal in general and let me explain why using the Bible as an example. First, the authors of the books insist that they are not writing fantasy for fun. In other words the principles they talk about, the history they record, and the God they believe are very real to them. That's not enough evidence at all for a person to conclude that God exists with great certainty. The authors of the Bible stand in contrast to George Lucas or Norman Bridwell because they do believe they are reporting real information. Second the Bible has important implications about how you should live your life. I can go into more detail if you like but what I am really getting at is that the existence of a God actually matters, at an individual level, unlike the existence of Wookies or Big Red Dogs. Therefore, one really has to be careful how they dismiss important arguments because one could actually cheat themselves out of something beneficial if they truly believed every witty hyperbole that came to mind.

Now you say that the whole point was to illustrate that the Bible is subject to personal interpretation and is therefore not really valid. That would be a really great argument if you could show that important biblical concepts, that are evidence for the existence of God, are subject to interpretation. If you can convince a Christian that such things are subject to interpretation then you are probably through 60% of the de-conversion process.

On a side note: Have you read the entire Bible? I mean I wouldn't be surprised if you have because you make some very definitive statements: "....the message of the Bible is poorly constructed, horribly conveyed, and often bigoted and immoral when deciphered, leading people to guesswork and semantics." Otherwise that would be like writing a book report on Tolkien's Hobbit after you finished the first 4 chapters.


You're asking me if I've read the Bible at the end of a 48 page thread promoting a 556 page book? Do you think I used assumptions and Cliff Notes? I've probably read the Bible front to back about 20 times, using about 3 different versions (King James, Daily Living, and something that was "translated for teens"). I believe you're misunderstanding the purpose of my book. It's intended as humor. If a theist was seeking honest inquiry into the Bible, he would be an atheist by now. There are SOOO many other books that already point out the Bible's nonsense with a factual, straightforward manner and so my intent was to voice my inner monologue as I read along to make people laugh and perhaps give insight from an atheist perspective.

You and I see the Bible very differently. I see an outdated tale of fantasy, complete with dragons, witches, satyrs, and unicorns - rife with immoral teachings and bigotry. It's so far from useful that it's comical, so I wrote a comedy. You on the other hand, apparently see a guidebook with important passages, meant to be taken seriously. I encountered zero verses of worth in my biblical travels. Perhaps you could share some?

"That would be a really great argument if you could show that important biblical concepts, that are evidence for the existence of God..."

Like that ^

Show me anything that could be considered "an important concept" that hadn't already been introduced to mankind by philosophers or older religions. Or the bit about "evidence for the existence." I saw talking donkeys, dragons wearing crowns, bears eating children, but alas I saw nothing that comes close to evidence of God.

The Bible does not become less ridiculous because of how many people accept it as truth (or more likely just haven't read it). If Jack and the Giant Beanstalk amassed a worldwide following of people claiming it to be the greatest story ever told, I would still approach it like the children's book that it is.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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16-01-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Well, your post is really funny. I myself write a blog on same topic and from the same (atheist) standpoint. Anyway, you should reconsider a bit some of your commentaries, since a thinking theologian might blow them away. E.g. what does it mean when god says "let us..." etc.? It's just a peculiar way of expressing something like "Let me ... etc.?" when "me" is someone of a higher position. Just see to these details, everything else is fine. Cheers!
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16-01-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(16-01-2014 09:48 AM)Zed Pi Wrote:  Well, your post is really funny. I myself write a blog on same topic and from the same (atheist) standpoint. Anyway, you should reconsider a bit some of your commentaries, since a thinking theologian might blow them away. E.g. what does it mean when god says "let us..." etc.? It's just a peculiar way of expressing something like "Let me ... etc.?" when "me" is someone of a higher position. Just see to these details, everything else is fine. Cheers!

Would you like a full stop at the end of each sentence ? I mean thinking theologians don't get confused by such obvious tricks so perhaps better to leave them out Rolleyes

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-01-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(16-01-2014 09:48 AM)Zed Pi Wrote:  Well, your post is really funny. I myself write a blog on same topic and from the same (atheist) standpoint. Anyway, you should reconsider a bit some of your commentaries, since a thinking theologian might blow them away. E.g. what does it mean when god says "let us..." etc.? It's just a peculiar way of expressing something like "Let me ... etc.?" when "me" is someone of a higher position. Just see to these details, everything else is fine. Cheers!
You do realize that this is comedy, don't you? Consider

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16-01-2014, 04:12 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(16-01-2014 02:08 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 09:48 AM)Zed Pi Wrote:  Well, your post is really funny. I myself write a blog on same topic and from the same (atheist) standpoint. Anyway, you should reconsider a bit some of your commentaries, since a thinking theologian might blow them away. E.g. what does it mean when god says "let us..." etc.? It's just a peculiar way of expressing something like "Let me ... etc.?" when "me" is someone of a higher position. Just see to these details, everything else is fine. Cheers!
You do realize that this is comedy, don't you? Consider

Apparently we have discovered a mirror image or contrapositive of Poe's Law.

"There is no ironic, sarcastic, or sardonic treatment of religion that the religious won't mistake for serious critique."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-01-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(16-01-2014 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 02:08 PM)Vosur Wrote:  You do realize that this is comedy, don't you? Consider

Apparently we have discovered a mirror image or contrapositive of Poe's Law.

"There is no ironic, sarcastic, or sardonic treatment of religion that the religious won't mistake for serious critique."

I'm not sure if I should laugh or feel sorry...

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17-01-2014, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2014 03:48 PM by Baruch.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Hypothesis:

VERSE CRITIQUE OF THE BIBLE OF THE DAY...
Quote:1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Evidence:
[Image: starving-child-1.jpg?w=300&h=243]

[Image: starving-children.jpg]

conclusion:
God as love = failed hypothesis

Simple

Much more disturbing than this is if Gods love is equivocated with torturing humans (every 45 seconds child dies of malaria fever from Gods design of plasmodiums & mosquito's = evidence for Gods love) and I personally have not tortured other humans in such a way- then I don't know God. Oh well.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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17-01-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(17-01-2014 03:44 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Much more disturbing than this is if Gods love is equivocated with torturing humans (every 45 seconds child dies of malaria fever from Gods design of plasmodiums & mosquito's = evidence for Gods love) and I personally have not tortured other humans in such a way- then I don't know God. Oh well.
Whose fault is this that those kids suffer? If you take care of them they will do much better. By "you" I mean all people.
God sent those angels because they need to have physical bodies and have this life experiences. Adults suppose to take care of these angels while they are not capable to do it on their own. And they(adults) are failing. Shame on us. God will hold us accountable if we don't do what adults suppose to do.

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18-01-2014, 05:16 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 09:39 AM by Baruch.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(17-01-2014 06:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 03:44 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Much more disturbing than this is if Gods love is equivocated with torturing humans (every 45 seconds child dies of malaria fever from Gods design of plasmodiums & mosquito's = evidence for Gods love) and I personally have not tortured other humans in such a way- then I don't know God. Oh well.
Whose fault is this that those kids suffer? If you take care of them they will do much better. By "you" I mean all people.
God sent those angels because they need to have physical bodies and have this life experiences. Adults suppose to take care of these angels while they are not capable to do it on their own. And they(adults) are failing. Shame on us. God will hold us accountable if we don't do what adults suppose to do.

Alla Even when I was a very religious believing theist I would be embarrassed to write something so naïve as you have done:
Quote:Alla: Whose fault is this that those kids suffer? If you take care of them they will do much better

In many cases it is impossible for humans to "take care of them" -
I can give you hundreds of examples:
Here is one VERY clear example:
The Justinian plague or various bubonic plagues wiped out 1/4 of some parts of Europe and other parts of the world - the "cause" of this was not "sins" but migrations to other parts of Eurasia and people unknowingly bringing back rats in the cargo and exposing large parts of the world to bacteria they have never been exposed to before, in utterly overwhelming numbers, to a population indoctrinated with Christianity & undeveloped sciences, with literally very little humans could do about it and no clear message from God or assistance.
On the contrary God is the DIRECT cause of such barbarism (if existed)

1. No divine law "thou shalt not migrate"

2. Many religions insist that they must pray in churches or mosque - the ultimate breeding ground for spreading infection - just imagine if the bible or quran said to pray in community EXCEPT IF YOU ARE SICK - DONT SPREAD IT !!! - the holy books don't say this.

3. God created an amazing killing machine - the bacteria's such as Enterobacteriaceae Yersinia pestis & fleas+ rats (immunity has evolutionary origins explained by biology - very impersonal process, little to do with beliefs)

4. God deliberately did not give immunity to most of the population - people with immunity have little to do with their faith or religious denomination.

5. God did not inform anyone about prevention methods or any science or technology. (its a far stretch but maybe some jews did not contract due to rules about washing hands, hygiene & handling corpses - but even these were poor instructions in the overall picture)

6. God prevented sciences by establishing dogmatic religions sceptical of science and forbidden to investigate & do empirical research which might contradict scriptures

7.God didn't even give a revelation about the sociological + biological causes hence perpetuating the disaster when priests blamed and persecuted others eg Christians persecuting jews for causing the plague - again Gods messages not only cause harm & destruction but perpetuate it !

....and Alla - really, you have the audacity and boldness to assert that
Quote:Alla: Whose fault is this that those kids suffer? If you take care of them they will do much better

If this is what you holy ghost tells you then please either get another ghost with better information of just learn history & some biology and get rid of all the ghosts

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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21-01-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(17-01-2014 06:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 03:44 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Much more disturbing than this is if Gods love is equivocated with torturing humans (every 45 seconds child dies of malaria fever from Gods design of plasmodiums & mosquito's = evidence for Gods love) and I personally have not tortured other humans in such a way- then I don't know God. Oh well.
Whose fault is this that those kids suffer? If you take care of them they will do much better. By "you" I mean all people.
God sent those angels because they need to have physical bodies and have this life experiences. Adults suppose to take care of these angels while they are not capable to do it on their own. And they(adults) are failing. Shame on us. God will hold us accountable if we don't do what adults suppose to do.

Many vaccines are only a few dollars per dose, so Alla, do you know how many vaccines can be given to children who need them with all of that money the Mormon church uses to evangelize and keep the organization running? The number would be quite high my friend! Will God hold the Mormon leaders accountable for spending the money and not doing what should be done with it, and not taking care of these "angels"?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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