An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
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10-09-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(10-09-2015 08:14 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 07:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  So... slavery is wrong then Smile Since you previously said that you can't as a rule tell if a slave deserves to be a slave.
Slavery is evil. Evil happens to evil doers. Evil also happens to good people.
This is part of God's plan. We are here to learn evil form our own experiences. Sometimes evil that happens to us is consequence of our actions, sometimes it is for another reason - we are given an opportunity to grow spiritually and to learn more.
(10-09-2015 07:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  Congratulations on disagreeing with God Smile Now you can go to hell with the rest of us Hug
I have no idea why you came to this conclusion.
God knows who deserves slavery(evil) and who doesn't. If He does not tell me who is evil doer He wants me to do what is right - help others without judging/thinking what kind of people they are.
Slavery is not right or wrong. Slavery is evil. God uses evil/Satan for His wise purposes.

So why does God use evil and have these purposes to begin with? Is that listed anywhere to a specific why this system and not any other in the bible passages yet?

If he uses/used Satan, does Satan have free will?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-09-2015, 11:16 PM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  So why does God use evil
without evil we can not exercise our moral agency. we have to exercise our moral agency in order to have eternal progression.
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  and why does God have these purposes to begin with?
because
1) life without purposes is waste of time
2) without purposes God can not have eternal progression. Nobody can be God without eternal progression.
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is that listed anywhere to a specific why this system and not any other in the bible passages yet?
Not directly.
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If he uses/used Satan, does Satan have free will?
Satan has moral agency( you call it free will) and Satan is given a lot of power. God let Satan to do what ever he(Satan) wants to do.

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11-09-2015, 01:07 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(10-09-2015 11:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  Satan has moral agency( you call it free will) and Satan is given a lot of power. God let Satan to do what ever he(Satan) wants to do.

Not according to the bible. According to the bible god creates all evil and good.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

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11-09-2015, 05:14 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(10-09-2015 11:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  So why does God use evil
without evil we can not exercise our moral agency. we have to exercise our moral agency in order to have eternal progression.
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  and why does God have these purposes to begin with?
because
1) life without purposes is waste of time
2) without purposes God can not have eternal progression. Nobody can be God without eternal progression.
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is that listed anywhere to a specific why this system and not any other in the bible passages yet?
Not directly.
(10-09-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If he uses/used Satan, does Satan have free will?
Satan has moral agency( you call it free will) and Satan is given a lot of power. God let Satan to do what ever he(Satan) wants to do.

So is all of the angel's lives a waste of time or do the angels have moral agency? If we exist where Evil exits, why did the initial angels/satan get the benefit of not toiling on Earth that we don't get?

Do humans have moral agency in heaven? Can you get kicked out of heaven once there? If not, how are you yourself still if you don't have the moral agency within Heaven? If these concepts were legitimate, why weren't they given within the bible? Why is it that post biblical scholars and priests are the ones to somehow come up with concepts that people withhold as true?

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11-09-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(11-09-2015 05:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  So is all of the angel's lives a waste of time or do the angels have moral agency?
before I answer this question I will explain to you who angels really are, not who many people(different Christians) say they are.
Angels are spirit children of God. 1/3 of God's children became fallen angels or demons. Lucifer or Satan is one of them.
2/3 of God's children:
1)those who are not humans yet, they don't have mortal physical bodies yet. They have moral agency. They choose to come here on Earth and learn more so they can have eternal progression
2)those who are humans now(we are those angels, you are this angel). We made our choice to come here and we continue to have our moral agency.
3)those who died and wait for the resurrection in spirit world, they have moral agency
4)those who died but already resurrected beings. they have moral agency.
5)fallen angels or demons. they lost their moral agency. why? because their last choice was to loose it(moral agency). Their last choice was to follow Lucifer and do what he tells them to do. Many of them regret but they can't change anything.
(11-09-2015 05:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If we exist where Evil exits, why did the initial angels/satan get the benefit of not toiling on Earth that we don't get?
they chose to be evil or fallen angels. so, they get this "job". God uses them for His purpose.
But we - 2/3 who didn't become fallen in pre-mortal life got privilege to have physical bodies and learn more and have more experiences in this life.
(11-09-2015 05:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do humans have moral agency in heaven?
I already answered in 4. Gods(glorified resurrected beings) also have moral agency.
(11-09-2015 05:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Can you get kicked out of heaven once there?
yes(theoretically), you if you chose to break eternal laws but practically(according to the revelations) those who become Gods always choose to obey eternal laws, they don't want to break them.
(11-09-2015 05:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If these concepts were legitimate, why weren't they given within the bible? Why is it that post biblical scholars and priests are the ones to somehow come up with concepts that people withhold as true?
some of them in the Bible but they are interpreted differently. they(scholars and priests) are NOT God's true prophets. They have no authority from God to write Scriptures, to interpret Scriptures which were written long time ago. Their priesthoods are false priesthoods. But they have moral agency. God permits them to have their false priesthoods and to change Scriptures and to interpret them any way they want.
They don't have the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not belong to God's(Christ's) true Church.
There was universal apostasy of the Christianity since the end of the 1st century.

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11-09-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(11-09-2015 01:07 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 11:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  Satan has moral agency( you call it free will) and Satan is given a lot of power. God let Satan to do what ever he(Satan) wants to do.
Not according to the bible. According to the bible god creates all evil and good.
More properly to say: not according my(your) understanding(interpretation) of the Bible.
(11-09-2015 01:07 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
1)it doesn't say that God creates ALL evil. it doesn't say that God creates ALL good
2)what does it mean when God says that He creates evil? when God permits evil thing to happen(by using Satan and his demons) God can say that He creates evil. If God didn't permit evil here on Earth, it wouldn't happen. But without evil or Satan God's plan can not be fulfilled.
(11-09-2015 01:07 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
but all those things are evil relatively. To us they are evil because they make us suffer. But in the big picture those evil things are GOOD for us, they are actually blessings. without evil, without suffering we can not have opportunities have new experiences and to learn in our mortal physical bodies and we can not become Gods(like our Gods). we can not have eternal progression.

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11-09-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Alla, your lack of knowledge regarding scripture is obvious.

You recently told me you had completed it. But you do now.

For example, are you aware of this?

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.

In other words, follow the words. Not your own idea regarding the words.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Do NOT change things!

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words , lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.


Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Now go and actually read it. You are embarrassing yourself.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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11-09-2015, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2015 10:29 AM by Alla.)
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Alla, your lack of knowledge regarding scripture is obvious.
of course, I do not remember every word that is written in the Bible but I have the gift of the Holy Ghost and there are Prophets of God. They(Spirit and Prophets) help me to know correct interpretation of the Bible.
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  For example, are you aware of this?
Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
Did God say this to Isaiah?
Did Jesus speak plainly? or He had to explain every word(parable) He told?
Does God ALWAYS speak plainly? I don't think so. Not according to the Bible at least.
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  In other words, follow the words. Not your own idea regarding the words.
God is the way. Literally? faith is the seed. Literally? House of Israel are sheep or olive tree. Literally?
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Yes, they spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost both plainly(so all people could understand) and in symbols (that no one could understand them accept those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost).
Many of the words of God are like hidden manna, meaning not all can have true understanding of them. There is wisdom of God in this.
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
yes, every word of God is pure: when He speaks plainly and when He speaks using symbolism.
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words , lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
How does it say that God can not or do not use symbols in His revelations?
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Did I add any word to this book? to Deuteronomy? I don't think so.
what does it have to do with God speaks both plainly and using symbols?
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Yes. Every word: both in plain language and in symbolic language.
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
yes. but why do you quote this?
(11-09-2015 09:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now go and actually read it. You are embarrassing yourself.
Hmm, when did I add a word to the book of Revelation or took away a word from the book of Revelation? Consider
There are words of God in the book of Revelation. Language of this book is not plain but symbolic. It is subject to CORRECT interpretation.
God speaks plainly and in symbols.
When God speaks in symbols it is for the purpose that people like you won't understand and it has to be interpreted CORRECTLY.

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11-09-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
Alla have you talked with a therapist yet? I'm being sincere when I ask this.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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11-09-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: An atheist's critique of the Bible (Book and eBook now available)
(11-09-2015 11:12 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Alla have you talked with a therapist yet? I'm being sincere when I ask this.

I don't think any therapist would take on Alla as a patient - not worth the time and money!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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