An atheist's quandary!
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25-11-2012, 05:09 AM
RE: An atheist's quandary!
(25-11-2012 04:56 AM)Janus Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 04:51 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Which simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject.

Service Management is simply process.

Good process will delivery the outcomes that have been defined.

Those outcomes could be totalitarian or utilitarian or whatever we (or the insidious 'they') want them to be.

In this case, the desired outcomes could be:
1. Efficient and effective governance to get the best results for the most students
2. Oppression of the students' liberty

Which is most likely?

Bla-bla-bla. Bury it under a pile of bureaucratese/management mumbo jumbo/Newspeak.

Quote:You decide.

Yep! You're O'Brien! Big Grin
I'd recognize you're type anywhere, old fart!

Well, OK.

That newspeak earns me a very juicy salary, so long may it continue.
Wanna come and here me speak? KL, Mon-Wed for only $2,000. Bargain!
And, yes, Orwell, Darwin, Marx and god all get a mention... to a muslim audience!

What are you doing tomorrow?

I have no idea who O'Brien is. I'm guessing it's a Murikan reference.

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25-11-2012, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 05:45 AM by Janus.)
RE: An atheist's quandary!
(25-11-2012 05:09 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I have no idea who O'Brien is.


Yes, that much is clear.
O'Brien is protagonist Winston Smith's boss/contact with the upper class in Airstrip One – these days also nick-named the illuminati, or the Bilderberg Conference, or the Trilateral Commision, etc.; in short: the puppet masters – in Orwell's visionary Nineteen-Eighty-Four.
You seem to have some catching up to do.
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25-11-2012, 05:45 AM
RE: An atheist's quandary!
(25-11-2012 05:38 AM)Janus Wrote:  
(25-11-2012 05:09 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I have no idea who O'Brien is.


Yes, that much is clear.
O'Brien is protagonist Winston Smith's boss/contact with the upper class in Airstrip One – these days also nick-named the illuminati, or the Bilderberg Conference, or the Trilateral Commision, etc.; in short: the puppet masters – in Orwell's Nineteen-Eighty-Four.
You seem to have some catching up to do.

Ah, yes, thanks. I'd forgotten his name.

Are you avoiding my questions?

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25-11-2012, 05:46 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 05:50 AM by Janus.)
RE: An atheist's quandary!
Of course.
I never grace Jehovah's Witnesses with a pertinent answer either. I've wasted enough time on that. It's their/your debating strategy: mire your opponent in confusing concepts and multi-interpretable gobbledigook – Newspeak – so that they either concede or give up.
Im not falling for that (anymore).
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25-11-2012, 05:54 AM
RE: An atheist's quandary!
(25-11-2012 05:46 AM)Janus Wrote:  Of course.
I never grace Jehovah's Witnesses with a pertinent answer either. I've wasted enough time on that. It's their/your debating strategy: mire your opponent in confusing concepts and multi-interpretable gobbledigook – Newspeak – so that they either concede or give up.
Im not falling for that (anymore).

Are you saying that concepts like 'security' and 'liberty' are too confusing for you? Dodgy

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25-11-2012, 06:03 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 06:08 AM by Janus.)
RE: An atheist's quandary!
I forgot to mention patronisation as a major component of that 'debating strategy' for a moment. My mistake. Thanks for reminding me.
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25-11-2012, 06:10 AM
RE: An atheist's quandary!
Why the hate for the cards in the first place?

They're used to track student wear-abouts in student hours.
I would have thought that it is bad enough that our teachers are already; teachers/moms/babysitters/councillors/advisors/administrators/etc... that we don't need to be adding finding-your-sorry-ass-locators to the mix.
They're underpaid as it is for goodness sake.

The fact is that school is required by law, if you are under a certain age then you are legally required to attended school (here at least). "Wagging", as it's called here, is a huge problem. Not only do students just straight out skip school but it's also what they do outside of school that is the issue, and sometimes in school uniform which reflects poorly on the school.

Fuck freedom of speech, you are legally required to be in school learning about shit that you will never use instead of out of school tagging up a side of a building or whatever. If you are of a certain age and don't want to attend school, fuck off and get a job.

PLUS, schools are responsible from for the well-being of students and can't well do a good job of that while they're out in town getting up to no good.


I say fuck these cards, I didn't know they were this weak ass chip, they need to get the real deal going on here. Full on GPS tracking things.

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25-11-2012, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2012 06:50 AM by DLJ.)
RE: An atheist's quandary!
(25-11-2012 06:03 AM)Janus Wrote:  I forgot to mention patronisation as a major component of that 'debating strategy' for a moment. My mistake. Thanks for reminding me.

Sorry you read it as such.

It was a genuine question. I was (am) puzzled. I don't understand what you did not understand / considered to be gobbledygook.

Please enlighten me.

EDIT: Muffsy O'Brien LOL

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25-11-2012, 07:11 AM
RE: An atheist's quandary!
(25-11-2012 02:10 AM)Janus Wrote:  
(24-11-2012 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  Now wait just a damn minute.

It is an RFID chip, not GPS. RFID is very short range and can only be used to track things like entry into rooms where the doorway is instrumented.

It can not track anyone beyond the school. Not quite Orwellian.


But pretty damn fucking close! And getting there in an awful hurry!
FYI: the UK today already has well over 10 million public, authority controlled CCTV cameras installed, monitoring streets, squares, malls, etc. etc. And with IR and drones they can also look inside buildings, including your bedroom!, too!
Not even Orwell foresaw that monstrous system!
Add to that the millions of private CCTV cameras!

I'll wager a bet that New York, Tokyo, and your home town aren't far behind.

Quote:It can not track anyone beyond the school.

1) That's purely wishful thinking! You don't know that!
RFID readers are the size of half a smartphone and can be hidden anywhere, including everywhere outside the school grounds. And they can read RFID chips – with current technology – at up to 20 feet distance already!
If 'they' want to track someone beyond school it's simple: you pick them up with RFID at the exact moment they exit the school grounds and then you monitor them with a drone. Easy as pie.
Or 'they' place RFID readers at nexus points along the route the 'subject' is supposed to take. Etc. etc.
And all kinds of combinations of surveillance techniques.

2) RFID systems can not only track and register – for eternity – where you were at what time, it can consequently also track and register where you were not at what time!

I have RFID chips in my passport and drivers license, which you are legally obliged to carry at all times (how convenient!) for ID purposes. And yes: I carry them in a wallet with a home-made double tin-foil sandwich lining. For all the above reasons.

Of course it is all completely academic since we all carry cellphones now, our 'personal tracking beacon'! So here's a tip: when you go rob a bank first switch off your cellphone!
They do not have to wear the card outside of school.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-11-2012, 07:24 AM
RE: An atheist's quandary!
Hey, DLJ.

I do have some questions. I think you skipped a step/made an assumption of knowledge. I'm not picking up what you're putting down about the evolution thing. Could you start over/elaborate?

As far as the extortion thing, they're directly threatening her if she doesn't wear the card. She had to get a restraining order to stop them from carrying out their threats (in this case expulsion or denial of pretty much every service in the school). Saying "Do as we say or else" is extortion. It's perverse. I've lived next the the US my entire life and the US I grew up beside would never have accepted threatening an underage girl for not allowing herself to be tracked by mandatory ID/tracking devices. 9/11 caused a great sickness in the US, exacerbated by the fact that the country has made it impossible, even 11 years later, to discuss the issue. This surveillance stuff really is the stuff of 1984. Like no hyperbole, it is. It can't be allowed.

Come now, my friend, comparing stop signs to being forced to carry identification papers/tracking devices is absurd. Authority is not supposed to be unlimited. It's supposed to be there (at least in our culture), but it's a spectrum with "can't tell us shit" at one end, and "absolute authority" on the other. We can't use the argument "authority exists" as justification for attempts to either accumulate more of it or overstep its boundaries.

Plus, this isn't an isolated case. The intention around the globe is clear, even stated. There will be more video surveillance, more facial recognition, more tracking, more, more, more. This case is just establishing a beachhead.

And why didn't you expect it from me?

Oh and I really don't understand the service management distinction... or what service management is for that matter Cool

Hey, Misanthrope.

Once the precedence is set, forget it. You'll never be rid of them. If your distaste for her beliefs are so great that you wouldn't help her, then, I'm sorry to say, you pretty much deserve the RFID chips.

Hey, Reltzik.

Religious exemption and conscientious objection are long-established precedents (at least in Canada, I think the US is a little more draconian about that sort of thing). Not to mention, if someone says you have to do X on pain of Y, one should have the ability to opt-out and/or redress the issue especially if it doesn't cause harm to another.

Quote:A line does need to be drawn between respecting religious freedom, and
allowing any degree of latitude to someone if they just play the "it's
against my religion" card.

That question is currently being discussed here in Quebec. It's called reasonable accommodation. Let me tell you, it gets real ugly and real racist, real quick.

Hey, Janus.

Yeah, the CCTV surveillance state stuff is disgusting.

It is a slippery slope. The UK is just further down the hill than the rest of us.

Oh, and don't be a penis. You disagree with DLJ, but there's no need for name calling. Your crimethink will lead to thoughtcrime and the thinkpol and minilov will have to get involved, throw your information into a memory hole and make you an unperson, which is certainly not doubleplusgood.

Hey, earmuffs.





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Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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