An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
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21-12-2016, 02:03 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 01:29 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  ...........
The title is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.
...... group (race).
...........
But he also was strongly against the mistreatment of people of other races, though, such as slavery. He would have been appalled at the idea of the Holocaust.

Why then he used word "race" and not "group"? Yeah, perhaps he has own issues with black people.

We love Darwin and wish him the happy Heaven. Heart
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21-12-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
The billion of years. The laws of nature are invariant under time compression. Therefore, the "macro-evolution" has the same properties as the "micro-evolution". No bear has ever become a crocodile, thus no bear ever will become a crocodile. Capisce? Laugh out load
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21-12-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 02:03 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(21-12-2016 01:29 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  ...........
The title is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.
...... group (race).
...........
But he also was strongly against the mistreatment of people of other races, though, such as slavery. He would have been appalled at the idea of the Holocaust.

Why then he used word "race" and not "group"? Yeah, perhaps he has own issues with black people.

We love Darwin and wish him the happy Heaven. Heart

Because, like a lot of words, there are different meanings of a single word.

"Race" does not mean skin color, as it's used in humans. It means any sub-group within a population. We might describe a "race" of geckos with round color splotches, while another "race" within that population has more stripe-like splotches. Whichever of those two races of geckos is better concealed from predators will be able to have more surviving offspring, and thus the population of geckos on the whole will come to resemble the "favored race" more because those are the ones whose genes are preserved in future generations.

I just told you that Darwin was referring to races within various species of animals, and did not mention humans in the book at all.

And I just told you that Darwin was racist in that he considered the British/European people to be the pinnacle of humanity (most did back then), but they also felt that came with the concept of noblesse oblige, which meant that the "superior" cultures/groups were obliged to care for and look out for those who are less-able. It was certainly racist by today's standards, but it's how the culture was among England's upper class, 200 years ago.

BUT THAT HAS NOT ONE THING TO DO WITH THE BOOK HE WROTE ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES AND YOU ARE LYING WHEN YOU SAY IT DOES.

Sorry for the all caps, but I can't believe a real human being who is capable of feeding himself would be as dense as you are being.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-12-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 02:32 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The billion of years. The laws of nature are invariant under time compression. Therefore, the "macro-evolution" has the same properties as the "micro-evolution". No bear has ever become a crocodile, thus no bear ever will become a crocodile. Capisce? Laugh out load

Actually, you're right for once. There really is no difference between "macro-evolution" and "micro-evolution", except the scale of time which you're examining. If you look at only a couple of thousand years, you might see "micro" changes... but over several thousand of those thousand years (aka millions), you certainly do see the micro changes add up into macro ones.

And we are the ones who are telling you that no bear has ever become a crocodile.

The question we're asking you in return is: WHY DO YOU THINK SCIENCE CLAIMS A BEAR WILL BECOME A CROCODILE?

That's not even close to what evolution says. If you're going to criticize science, at least know what it says, capisce?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-12-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 02:32 PM)theBorg Wrote:  No bear has ever become a crocodile, thus no bear ever will become a crocodile.


That's correct, but there is evidence of a duck becoming a crocodile...

[Image: Crocoduck.jpg]
Crocoduck

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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21-12-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 01:16 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(21-12-2016 01:08 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Bears evolve to crocodiles?

Idiot.

You will use this word many many times, just read the "Origin of Species and the privilege of the white race in the fight for life"! The title is like I am remembering it, sorry.

Laugh out load

As RS noted, you deliberately bastardized the title. Darwin was extremely progressive for his time in regards to racism as well as science.

Darwin made his theory falsifiable and made predictions using his theory. The predictions have been proven accurate, some during his own lifetime.

In the century plus since Darwin published, greater minds than yours have spent their lives trying to disprove and/or discredit his work and his character. Yet you expect to succeed where they have failed. Pathetic.

Perhaps next you'll try to link hitler and Darwin?

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21-12-2016, 03:02 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 02:32 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The billion of years. The laws of nature are invariant under time compression.

Wow. Incomprehensible, Ignorant and an Idiot.

(21-12-2016 02:32 PM)theBorg Wrote:  Therefore, the "macro-evolution" has the same properties as the "micro-evolution".


There are differences, but they are minor. Essentially the words are the same.

(21-12-2016 02:32 PM)theBorg Wrote:  No bear has ever become a crocodile, thus no bear ever will become a crocodile.

That would be because species evolve, not individuals. Which means things don't look good for you. The chances of your brain evolving intelligence are fairly nonexistent.

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21-12-2016, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2016 04:32 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
Hrm, let me try to explain micro-to-macro for you, in terms of scale.

Take something very simple, such as a dollar bill. Let's let the length of that dollar bill represent the amount of divergence of one generation of a species from the last generation, under strong selection pressure.

A dollar bill is 15.6 centimeters (6.14 inches) long. Not much. If you place the first dollar at your feet, its tip will have diverged from you by a bit over 15cm. Not even the length of your feet. Indistinguishable from your position. But if we place $1000 end-to-end, we've now traveled 156 meters. It's a decent amount of distance, yes, but you're still in the same town, probably on the same street.

But a thousand generations (at an average of 20 years per generation) is not even as long as modern humans have been in Europe, and only 1/4th as long as it has been since modern humans first left Africa! And we're only talking 20,000 years, which is a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.

We diverged from our common ancestors with the chimpanzees over 7 million years ago. That's 350,000 generations. Measured in terms of the dollar bill, that's 5,460,000 cm (or 54,600m)... 54.6 kilometers. That's the next town over (and maybe several towns over if you live somewhere that's densely populated, like Europe), and the street has likely turned many times since then. How many towns are within 54.6 kilometers of where you live?

So if we go back to the last common ancestor of the bear and the crocodile, we're talking the Sauropsids, which were over 310 million years ago... so using the same divisor for generations of 20 years, we get 15,500,000 generations that have passed.

In dollar bill terms, that's 2,418 kilometers (~1500 miles). Or roughly the distance between Moscow and London.

Are you starting to get the picture? Small changes, not even the length of your feet, add up very quickly when we start talking about the number of generations on an evolutionary time scale.



Edit to Add: Someone please check my math. I'm getting ready for holiday celebrations and a bunch of people are here, so I'm running on even less sleep than usual and having to keep an eye on kiddos and a lot of other things. So I'm a bit distracted. I feel like I made an error in there somewhere (such as dropping a decimal place) and I frankly lack the spare mental horsepower right now to dig through until I see it. Undecided

Edited again: Found it. It's 156m for 1000 15.6 cm bills, not 1560. (1000x15.6=15,600cm, 15600cm / 100 cm per m = 156m.) I feel better now. I knew I'd skipped a decimal somewhere. Fixed it in the text.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-12-2016, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2016 03:49 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
(21-12-2016 03:09 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Hrm, let me try to explain micro-to-macro for you, in terms of scale.

Take something very simple, such as a dollar bill. Let's let the length of that dollar bill represent the amount of divergence of one generation of a species from the last generation, under strong selection pressure.

A dollar bill is 15.6 centimeters (6.14 inches) long. Not much. If you place the first dollar at your feet, it will have changed by a bit over 15cm. Not even the length of your feet. Indistinguishable from your position. But if we place $1000 end-to-end, we've now traveled 1560 meters. A kilometer and a half. It's a decent amount of distance, yes, but you're still in the same town, probably on the same street.

But a thousand generations (at an average of 20 years per generation) is not even as long as modern humans have been in Europe, and only 1/4th as long as it has been since modern humans first left Africa! And we're only talking 20,000 years, which is a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.

We diverged from our common ancestors with the chimpanzees over 7 million years ago. That's 350,000 generations. Measured in terms of the dollar bill, that's 5,460,000 cm (or 54,600m)... 54.6 kilometers. That's the next town over (and maybe several towns over if you live somewhere that's densely populated, like Europe), and the street has likely turned many times since then. How many towns are within 54.6 kilometers of where you live?

So if we go back to the last common ancestor of the bear and the crocodile, we're talking the Sauropsids, which were over 310 million years ago... so using the same divisor for generations of 20 years, we get 15,500,000 generations that have passed.

In dollar bill terms, that's 2,418 kilometers (~1500 miles). Or roughly the distance between Moscow and London.

Are you starting to get the picture? Small changes, not even the length of your feet, add up very quickly when we start talking about the number of generations on an evolutionary time scale.

Using distance as an analogy is a good way to describe it.

The creationist shibboleth would be since no one can jump 2,418 Km, then no one has ever traveled that distance. Facepalm

And you travel that distance by taking the first of many steps. Thumbsup

In honor of the holiday season, here's a video even someone like Borg can understand:




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-12-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: An elitest YEC paper found! Is it real or fantasy?
For the guests:

Correcting Darwin's Critics

The above video refutes all of the typical slanders and slurs against Darwin. Included are racism allegations, deathbed conversions, links to Hitler and others.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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