An interesting concept
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06-12-2011, 11:33 AM
RE: An interesting concept
(06-12-2011 09:01 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Some good points have been made... and I do see how I could be wrong in this. I came to the conclusion through my studies, but I'm always open to learning more and possibly changing my view on the flood.

Also, I believe in evolution.

My unasked for opinion follows:

I wonder if this is why you believe as you do about the Flood. Perhaps you're taking your belief in evolution into your study of the Bible. Without feeling the need to cite sources, it seems to be widely conjectured that there was a massive, but local flood that devastated a large region. Not just in stories like the Epic of Gilgamesh and Genesis 6-8 and many others, but also in the geological record. So perhaps you're trying too hard to meld the Biblical record with science? Just a thought. Having spent a lot of years in the original languages and loads of translations and theology and archaeology, I just found that belief with apologetic acrobatics was no longer tenable for me. But that's probably just me.

End of unasked for opinion.

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06-12-2011, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2011 12:11 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: An interesting concept
just remember that there probably was a regional flood that affected the Mesopotamians. But it would be grossly exaggerated in the bible. Gilgamesh does not speak of a flood as severe as the Hebrew flood. Flood stories are very common amongst religions. The issue with this though, is that the presence of a flood does not justify the description in the bible. Since the bible is to be the word of god rather than a story about how cool god is, it must not be exaggeration. No matter how you look at the Hebrew, the event as presented couldn't have happened. Just remember that while it's perfectly possible for there to have been a smaller flood that lasted way too long and really sucked, it can't measure up to the flood described in this book.

The atheist only needs to prove that the bible is a bunch of people describing their god to take it off the discussion table. Once it is agreed that it's just a bunch of exaggeration then the theist is left with his personal and cultural views. As the only reason the book holds any real meaning is because it is said to be from god. If it wasn't from god they'd write a new book with much clearer understood words, and stop relying on their ancestors.

By the way it couldn't have happened as there is no archeological break where all civilizations stop leaving remains. Even within the region there would need to be at least an entire year where absolutely no society left any sort of pottery or tool. Though if we're being serious the amount of break in historical evidence would need to be around 500 years. How many babies do you expect 8 people with 4 males to produce? Maybe if it was Noah his wife and his 6 daughters it could go faster, but we have three sons. There's only so many babies you can manage with this.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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06-12-2011, 01:56 PM
RE: An interesting concept
(06-12-2011 12:05 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  just remember that there probably was a regional flood that affected the Mesopotamians. But it would be grossly exaggerated in the bible. Gilgamesh does not speak of a flood as severe as the Hebrew flood. Flood stories are very common amongst religions. The issue with this though, is that the presence of a flood does not justify the description in the bible. Since the bible is to be the word of god rather than a story about how cool god is, it must not be exaggeration. No matter how you look at the Hebrew, the event as presented couldn't have happened. Just remember that while it's perfectly possible for there to have been a smaller flood that lasted way too long and really sucked, it can't measure up to the flood described in this book.

The atheist only needs to prove that the bible is a bunch of people describing their god to take it off the discussion table. Once it is agreed that it's just a bunch of exaggeration then the theist is left with his personal and cultural views. As the only reason the book holds any real meaning is because it is said to be from god. If it wasn't from god they'd write a new book with much clearer understood words, and stop relying on their ancestors.

By the way it couldn't have happened as there is no archeological break where all civilizations stop leaving remains. Even within the region there would need to be at least an entire year where absolutely no society left any sort of pottery or tool. Though if we're being serious the amount of break in historical evidence would need to be around 500 years. How many babies do you expect 8 people with 4 males to produce? Maybe if it was Noah his wife and his 6 daughters it could go faster, but we have three sons. There's only so many babies you can manage with this.


Even a legit regional flood wouldn't explain the Ark. IIRC there are measurements in Genesis for the size of the Ark and a wooden vessel of that size would be both improbably and unnecessary. Why build a boat when you can throw on your Nikes and head for the hills?

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06-12-2011, 03:44 PM
RE: An interesting concept
(06-12-2011 01:56 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Even a legit regional flood wouldn't explain the Ark. IIRC there are measurements in Genesis for the size of the Ark and a wooden vessel of that size would be both improbably and unnecessary. Why build a boat when you can throw on your Nikes and head for the hills?

No, but genetic memory through meme carried from life might. It has been speculated that a comet - or several - collided with the earth in the deep past, to make the vista we now see. Simulations have been run where Earth would be more like Venus if something did not strip off layers of atmosphere...

Yes, this is blue-sky. I'm thinking of plant life "witnessing" the fall of the comet and "encoding" that event into memory and meme; and such a thing was remembered by mystics of a past age and given these forms: Tiamat, the fall of Lucifer, the dragon of Revelation into the sea...

Blue-sky whose scientific value would be realized by "deprogramming" these memes and returning rational to the natural. Wink

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07-12-2011, 02:47 AM
RE: An interesting concept
To house of Cantor, I used the dimensions given in the bible and assumed there would be seven decks. Used wikipedia to find the number of mamals minus the number of aquatic mamals and bats.
The 95% is of all members of kingdom anamalia not just mamals and that source and joke came from dominic diamond a brodcastor of Q107.1 classic rock who read it on a plaque at the Royal Ontario Museum.

also in terms of a historic flood, sorry for more linguistic acrobatics, but the hebrew word for mountains is the same as hills. and considering it says he lannded on the mountains before the flood waters receded seems to sugjest that this is what is being used.

p.s. although I am not a creationist I do belive in a localized flood

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