Analogy to Christianity
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08-05-2012, 08:47 PM
Analogy to Christianity
I was listening to a program by Ray Comfort, and any of you that have heard this apologist speak or have read his stuff know that he loves analogy. Not a minute/page go by without him drawing an analogy. And most of them are pretty inaccurate.

The first analogy I heard in this program (Hell's Best Kept Secret, available for download by .mp3) was one that explains why everyone needs to become a Christian. He puts you in the position of someone hauled into court to pay a $25,000 fine. You say "Why? I didn't break the law." The judge answers, "You sped through an area filled with blind people. The speed limit there was 15 MPH but you went 55 MPH, and you should have known better because it was clearly marked in several places." The judge then tells you that someone has offered to pay your fine, and all you have to do is acknowledge that you did wrong, apologize for it, and thank the person who paid off that huge debt that you didn't realize until now that you owe.

That is, of course, an analogy for what Christians believe --- you're a sinner, and upon hearing that you've done such grievous wrong, you have to admit that you're a sinner and ask for forgiveness, and then believe in this person who paid your huge debt.

I imagine my fellow atheists realize all the mistakes made in this analogy. The speed limit was "clearly" marked, and yet everyone makes this same mistake? And while there's a clear danger in driving without caution around blind people, I don't see the danger in saying "God dammit" or in looking at a woman in lust, or even in loving money (the root of all evil , of course). And we all presuppose that traffic laws are actual laws that you have to obey, but not all of us see biblical laws as having any authority (in the same way that Christians don't feel bound to Muslim laws just because they're in a book). And this "free gift" of paying your debt is obviously not free, and could be viewed as blackmail. How? Let me paint a more accurate analogy.

You come home to find a friend waiting for you. This friend tells you that you're married to someone that you've never met or heard of, and tells you that you're going to suffer the worst possible punishment for cheating on him/her. "But I wasn't even aware that I was married," you say. "Tough shit," says your friend. You ask for proof that you're actually married, but your friend says you won't meet your spouse until after your dead, which is after the deadline for taking the deal --- to acknowledge your marriage, apologize for your infidelity, and believe in your spouse. You'd rather have proof of your marriage rather than being told about it by your friend or others (none of whom have actually met your spouse, either), but it seems like such a low cost to avoid the worst punishment ever.

And then you find out that the extortion hasn't ended. "Why aren't you going to marital counseling every Sunday?" your friend asks. "Someone who really acknowledges that he/she has a spouse would attend marital counseling regularly, otherwise nobody will believe that you actually accept the fact that you're married. Plus you have to stop with your current relationship, because your spouse is jealous and won't share you. And did I mention the 10% per week alimony payments that you'll have to start making? And now let's discuss your friends..." and so on, and so on. I've been a Christian. Some others of you have been, too. You know that there's more involved in being a Christian than simply saying "I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" and then living like an atheist. Christians tell you it merely requires belief, and then they pull a bait & switch. But in any case, there's never a reason to give your supposed spouse the benefit of the doubt... you're commanded to do something unreasonable for someone who can't even give you the basic things you'd want in exchange --- proof that you owe a debt or that the alleged punishment exists.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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08-05-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
Starcrash, I sense you feel as if you've done something so awful that you feel you need to punish yourself by listening to Ray Comfort. I can't think of any other reason. Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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08-05-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
The traffic/injury analogy is pathetic.

We do not need to tune into a saviour to learn sane laws; we also learn by experience (some of us)
and even intuition can be helpfull in my view.

Where people adopt saviours and all types of "Perfect Beings" and stop thinking for themselves they
also risk the possibility of committing horrendous crimes based on fantasy.
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08-05-2012, 10:11 PM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
(08-05-2012 09:13 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Starcrash, I sense you feel as if you've done something so awful that you feel you need to punish yourself by listening to Ray Comfort. I can't think of any other reason. Tongue
I don't like to be surprised with arguments, so I prefer to hear and think about them long before I hear them personally from Christians. Additionally, I like to be open-minded. Despite the fact that I see God's existence as highly unlikely, I'm not going to go so far as to say it's impossible.

Wouldn't it be nice to be aware of an analogy like this long before you hear it from a Christian? Like me, you'd be able to break it apart very quickly, and the Christian would marvel that you could tear it down so fast. I've done it before. It's loads of fun.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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08-05-2012, 11:01 PM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
Did I miss something?
Who saw me speeding in this valley of the blind?

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09-05-2012, 01:32 AM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
(08-05-2012 08:47 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  offered to pay your fine
I think it is one of the similarities between the 2 major group: Catholic and Protestant.

Both similarly have inclusivist and exlusivist:
Inclusivist sees the gesture as “already paid” : knowledge of the gesture is not required.
Exlusivist sees the gesture as “offered to pay” : knowledge and acceptance of the gesture is required.
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09-05-2012, 05:33 AM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
(08-05-2012 08:47 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I was listening to a program by Ray Comfort...

That's where you lost me. If you need new apologetics to debate, prolly make more sense to let your cat run across the keyboard. Tongue

The only way I'd listen to that guy would be if I was in the Marines or something and we needed to storm a hard point. Guy seriously makes me wanna kill...

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09-05-2012, 08:23 AM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
Is this the same guy that claims he has proven god because he had shown that a banana perfectly fits the human hand?
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09-05-2012, 09:54 AM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
(09-05-2012 08:23 AM)Magoo Wrote:  Is this the same guy that claims he has proven god because he had shown that a banana perfectly fits the human hand?
Yup.


Starcrash, I agree with knowing what apologists have to say. I was just giving you a hard time about Ray Comfort, but the more I think about it the less I'm kidding. He's hardly worthy of the title Apologist. As a long time Christian, I found him and his TBN ilk ridiculous. The only people who listen to him are people over 80 and maybe a few crazy Pentecostals. There's nothing to see here, folks. If you want to be up on the arguments of real apologists, you might want to check out people like Ravi Zacharias, Hugh Ross, Phillip Johnson, John Ankerberg, Greg Koukl, Norman Geisler, RC Sproul and even WLC. These are the people that Evangelicals listen to and trust in. Ray Comfort is a joke on both sides of the theism debate.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-05-2012, 04:51 AM
RE: Analogy to Christianity
(09-05-2012 09:54 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  If you want to be up on the arguments of real apologists, you might want to check out people like Ravi Zacharias, Hugh Ross, Phillip Johnson, John Ankerberg, Greg Koukl, Norman Geisler, RC Sproul and even WLC. These are the people that Evangelicals listen to and trust in. Ray Comfort is a joke on both sides of the theism debate.
I do actually listen to Ravi Zacharias every Sunday morning. I dislike Hugh Ross for the same reasons I dislike Answers in Genesis, but I download his stuff, too, on a website called Firefighters for Christ. The others I've never heard of (except WLC, naturally... ugh) but I'll look 'em up. Thanks for the list.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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