Analyze a Theist/Catholic
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04-02-2012, 05:35 PM
Analyze a Theist/Catholic
I'm opening this thread to have a discussion with my fellow atheists about our observations and learnings from the "Ask a ..." threads, or from other interactions with believers. I wouldn't say that believers are not welcome in this thread, but a believer may find the thread to be a bit insulting as we'll be discussing your delusions and clearly labelling them as such.

My inspiration for this thread is something I learned as a skeptic, discussing psychics with other skeptics, and coming to the understanding that many of these people really believed they had psychic abilities, even when they failed completely in a test situation to which they had agreed in advance. When I understood that they really believed, I saw them in a new light, which was helpful for further discussions and interactions. In a similar vein, I'm wondering what any of the atheists here have learned about the believers.

Note: This is not the thread to argue the beliefs, or for believers to argue the observations. There are ample active threads for those purposes already.
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04-02-2012, 05:45 PM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
(04-02-2012 05:35 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I'm opening this thread to have a discussion with my fellow atheists about our observations and learnings from the "Ask a ..." threads, or from other interactions with believers. I wouldn't say that believers are not welcome in this thread, but a believer may find the thread to be a bit insulting as we'll be discussing your delusions and clearly labelling them as such.

My inspiration for this thread is something I learned as a skeptic, discussing psychics with other skeptics, and coming to the understanding that many of these people really believed they had psychic abilities, even when they failed completely in a test situation to which they had agreed in advance. When I understood that they really believed, I saw them in a new light, which was helpful for further discussions and interactions. In a similar vein, I'm wondering what any of the atheists here have learned about the believers.

Note: This is not the thread to argue the beliefs, or for believers to argue the observations. There are ample active threads for those purposes already.

There is value in the religious being themselves. I will not argue theology or scripture, as this is a waste of time. Do we debate the earth is not flat? I do think some value is gained from the religious in-process of conversion or I would wouldn't bother. I was there myself, though many moons ago.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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04-02-2012, 06:03 PM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
My quick analysis of the two theists here:

KC had a strong emotional experience that was so powerful it utterly convinced him God was real. Starting from that assumption he came to a theology that has far fewer contradictions that your average religion. Unfortunately the only way he could get away with so few contradictions was by basically making God a selfish dick who for some reason came up with a plan that involves torturing billions infinitely just so he could give his bored son something to do.

The newer Nagoda is completely different. He admits his belief is illogical, but somehow he's completely fine with that. He's a Catholic probably mostly because he was raised that way, judging by the amount of issues he disagrees with the church on
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04-02-2012, 06:09 PM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
(04-02-2012 05:35 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I'm opening this thread to have a discussion with my fellow atheists about our observations and learnings from the "Ask a ..." threads, or from other interactions with believers. I wouldn't say that believers are not welcome in this thread, but a believer may find the thread to be a bit insulting as we'll be discussing your delusions and clearly labelling them as such.

My inspiration for this thread is something I learned as a skeptic, discussing psychics with other skeptics, and coming to the understanding that many of these people really believed they had psychic abilities, even when they failed completely in a test situation to which they had agreed in advance. When I understood that they really believed, I saw them in a new light, which was helpful for further discussions and interactions. In a similar vein, I'm wondering what any of the atheists here have learned about the believers.

Note: This is not the thread to argue the beliefs, or for believers to argue the observations. There are ample active threads for those purposes already.

I gained a fresh appreciation of the cognitive dissonance present in believers of all stripes - not just the theists. Belief without evidence is bad enough, but belief despite evidence is just appalling.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2012, 09:32 PM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
(04-02-2012 06:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  I gained a fresh appreciation of the cognitive dissonance present in believers of all stripes - not just the theists. Belief without evidence is bad enough, but belief despite evidence is just appalling.

This.

It really is about cognitive dissonance. And Chas, you're nice enough to point out that anyone can fall prey to this. I say that because I spent a lot of years as a True Believer, putting my brain's ability to compartmentalize to it's extreme limits. Even as an atheist, I can see where I'm still pretty good at slipping into those old patterns with new beliefs. I'm better at testing and exposing them in myself than I was before...Praise The Lord!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-02-2012, 09:32 PM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
The TV show The Atheist Experience always makes a point of asking each caller what they personally believe, because no one ever represents their religion. I have a Catholic uncle who was arguing about why "Catholics don't support abortion", and I directed him here. I likewise try not to represent "the Atheist view" on any subject, because there's a wide variety of opinion among atheists on any subject.

So I don't believe these threads are entirely useful. The particular theist answering questions can only give us his own personal view on each question. Aren't the people asking questions looking for an answer that represents more than a single person's opinion?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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04-02-2012, 10:41 PM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
(04-02-2012 09:32 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 06:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  I gained a fresh appreciation of the cognitive dissonance present in believers of all stripes - not just the theists. Belief without evidence is bad enough, but belief despite evidence is just appalling.

This.

It really is about cognitive dissonance. And Chas, you're nice enough to point out that anyone can fall prey to this. I say that because I spent a lot of years as a True Believer, putting my brain's ability to compartmentalize to it's extreme limits. Even as an atheist, I can see where I'm still pretty good at slipping into those old patterns with new beliefs. I'm better at testing and exposing them in myself than I was before...Praise The Lord!

Hey - who you callin' nice? Dodgy

For me, skepticism about the existence of God is the same as skepticism about the existence of any supernatural phenomena, the effectiveness of homeopathy, energy healing, astrology, or anything else for which there is no evidence or even credible mechanisms.

I can't disprove the existence of gods - but I don't need to; I'm not the one making the claim. And the same is true for all the rest.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-02-2012, 01:18 AM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
I consider myself to be a conservative or Dominican (yes, the inquisition guys) catholic. I hold most of the traditionalist views. Although I am leaning towards some liberal views on monotheism ( at least in the strictest sense) and I don't believe in a god's plan theology. other than that I will defend to the death my church. so ask away. the only thing that offends me is blatant ignorance.

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I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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05-02-2012, 01:50 AM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
(05-02-2012 01:18 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I consider myself to be a conservative or Dominican (yes, the inquisition guys) catholic. I hold most of the traditionalist views. Although I am leaning towards some liberal views on monotheism ( at least in the strictest sense) and I don't believe in a god's plan theology. other than that I will defend to the death my church. so ask away. the only thing that offends me is blatant ignorance.

Hey TS,
As a traditionalist, what do you think of our young friend Nagoda here? Can you share Eucharist with him or are his views so far from orthodoxy that you would nominate him for excommunication?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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05-02-2012, 01:57 AM
RE: Analyze a Theist/Catholic
(04-02-2012 10:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 09:32 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  It really is about cognitive dissonance. And Chas, you're nice enough to point out that anyone can fall prey to this. I say that because I spent a lot of years as a True Believer, putting my brain's ability to compartmentalize to it's extreme limits. Even as an atheist, I can see where I'm still pretty good at slipping into those old patterns with new beliefs. I'm better at testing and exposing them in myself than I was before...Praise The Lord!

Hey - who you callin' nice? Dodgy

Bah... he's being a Lord praiser - you know how they can get... what with their praise this and all cognitive dissonance that.

Good thing I repeated the incant three times before I clicked on this thread. Angel

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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