Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
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03-05-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
Do I need to bring in input from my mechanical engineer friend who has designed firearms, and has worked with 3D printers and CNC machines alike? With training in metallurgy to explain to you why laser fused metal is not sufficiently strong to be used in a firearm? At all?

Because apparently I'm full of shit or something.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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03-05-2013, 10:38 PM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
And I haven't even mentioned springs yet. Unless 3D printers can precisely heat treat and quench metal as well as print it, I don't think you could make those either.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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03-05-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
I think, in 10 years, the most advanced and powerful firearm you could print most of would be a single action revolver. If you got a commercial barrel, that is. Assuming that laser fused metal can be made at least two or three times stronger than it currently is, then you could probably print a cylinder and frame capable of handling the pressure of a fairly lower powered cartridge; I'd say .38 Special at most. Maybe .41 Special, I dunno, let's be generous. It would still start wearing to the point of malfunction in less than 100 rounds, but until then it would be a serviceable firearm. If you got an actual barrel, that is.

If you printed the barrel? Then I think, firing .38 Special, that barrel would either warp, crack, bulge, or explode in 5 shots or less.




If you think anyone will be able to print a semiautomatic in the next 20 years, then you are overestimating the capability of 3D printing as much as people in the late 40s/early 50s overestimated the capability of nuclear power to make cars fly.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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03-05-2013, 11:09 PM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
(03-05-2013 10:23 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  The thing is, they can't. You can't make a gun out of entirely plastic... The barrel must be metal. The boltface must be metal. The firing pin or hammer must be metal. That's pretty much a requirement for anything that will fire without blowing up, or if you're lucky fire more than one shot. So no, you can't get it through a metal detector.

And the metal parts cannot be 3D printed, even if technology improves. You might 3D print a barrel for a .22LR, ten years from now and with an expensive setup. But try and print an AR-15 barrel? Or bolt? Not going to happen. The fusion process used in 3D metal printers is not a tenth as strong as forged, or even cast steel, and lacks heat treating. A gun barrel has to be made as a solid piece, then bored, then rifled. No one will be able to do that at home, not without tens of thousands of dollars of investment, not in the foreseeable future.

And, for countries where guns are already banned, most of them have restricted access to ammunition anyway. What, are they going to print brass cartridges? Even cast brass isn't suitable for most firearms, it has to be drawn... And you can't print gunpowder.



What I'm saying is this.

Where 3D printing was 10 years ago......Where it is now.............................................................................​................................................................................​............................Where it needs to be to do anything like what you think it does




I understand the tech. Probably better than you do. And I understand guns. And I can say with authority that the majority of the claims made in that "documentary" are pretty much bullshit, with regards to making weapons. 3D printing will do a lot of things, but it won't make it possible to print a whole firearm, not in the next 20-30 years.

NASA 3d printing rocket parts with steel:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/14008...ot-plastic

I'd say NASA's rocket parts have to cope with substantial forces and would probably be overdesigned... Given their financial history.

And I don't see why most of a firearm can't be made out of plastics. If they are designed right. Also plastics are improving, and why couldn't the 3d printer print composite plastic materials, or add chemicals that make it resistant to any future heating like thermosetting plastic.

The firing pin - why does that have to be metal? As long as it hits the primer with enough force.

Preconceptions should be thrown out the window. Even getting off one shot should be enough to kill someone.

Guns are currently designed to be reusable, these plastic ones could be designed like disposable cameras.. Why not?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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03-05-2013, 11:19 PM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
I'm not sure what exactly that part is, but it doesn't look like the rocket nozzle. Possibly part of the fuel system? In which case it's under very little stress, aside from vibration and G force, which surprisingly isn't that extreme compared to what you get in the chamber of an average firearm.

I said nothing about the firing pin. That can be whatever. I talked about the barrel, bolt, and springs. The first two being subjected to extreme forces, and the latter being unsuited to printing.

Maybe you could make a one-shot, single use gun on a printer. Ok, fine. You can make one now out of spare junk and some elbow grease, so it's not much of an advancement, really.


You said "heavy assault rifles with high capacity magazines". I'm sorry, that's just not gonna happen.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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03-05-2013, 11:29 PM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
This is what you can make at home today with stuff from the hardware store:

http://www.weirdtwist.com/2013/02/12-tru...-guns.html

[Image: homemade+guns+14.jpg]

[Image: homemade+guns+7.jpg]


A 3D printer made gun, using tech from 10 years in the future, would probably be slightly easier to make and slightly less reliable. That's about as much as you can say for it.


Note: Some of the guns in that collection appear to have involved fabricated parts (on a lathe or mill) or existing gun parts. Those would be superior to what you could make with a 3D printer.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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04-05-2013, 12:04 AM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
(03-05-2013 11:29 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  A 3D printer made gun, using tech from 10 years in the future, would probably be slightly easier to make and slightly less reliable. That's about as much as you can say for it.


Note: Some of the guns in that collection appear to have involved fabricated parts (on a lathe or mill) or existing gun parts. Those would be superior to what you could make with a 3D printer.

A 3d printer right now can conveniently make a single use gun out of plastic so it could get through a metal detector. As technology advances, say in 10 years more advanced weapons could be made.

There are alternatives to things like springs using other materials and designs.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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04-05-2013, 12:10 AM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
(04-05-2013 12:04 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(03-05-2013 11:29 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  A 3D printer made gun, using tech from 10 years in the future, would probably be slightly easier to make and slightly less reliable. That's about as much as you can say for it.


Note: Some of the guns in that collection appear to have involved fabricated parts (on a lathe or mill) or existing gun parts. Those would be superior to what you could make with a 3D printer.

A 3d printer right now can conveniently make a single use gun out of plastic so it could get through a metal detector. As technology advances, say in 10 years more advanced weapons could be made.

There are alternatives to things like springs using other materials and designs.

You'd never get a gun through a metal detector. Even if he gun could pass (it won't as the barrel and bolt are made of steel) the ammunition would show up like a sore thumb. That's all hyped bullshit made up about Glock polymer pistols.

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04-05-2013, 12:35 AM
RE: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
(04-05-2013 12:10 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  You'd never get a gun through a metal detector. Even if he gun could pass (it won't as the barrel and bolt are made of steel) the ammunition would show up like a sore thumb. That's all hyped bullshit made up about Glock polymer pistols.

If your thinking in terms of single use you can do away with the metal parts.

The barrel, etc, can be designed to fail in a controlled way such that you get off at least one shot.

The ammo could be crafted out of anything. Gunpowder isn't hard to make or get. Depends on the range you need.

You could use premade ammo, it's allot easier to sneak in couple rounds of ammo vs an entire gun. Maybe use steel toe boots and hide a couple rounds in there.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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04-05-2013, 12:44 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 08:39 AM by Phaedrus.)
Re: Anarchists, Guns, and 3D Printing
So let's compare our new 3D printed, single use gun with homemade black powder ammunition, and the range and accuracy of a ping pong ball out of a paper towel roll...

To an actually useful weapon like a half brick in a sock.


See how many fucks I give about your 3D gun.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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