Anarchists
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09-02-2011, 02:30 AM
RE: Anarchists
(09-02-2011 01:23 AM)Kthulu Wrote:  
Quote:For the sake of my ignorance (I've been curious about the anarchist platform for a few years) can you describe what exactly the platform is?

The premise is really rather simple: people should be free to govern themselves.

The assumption of benign systems such as democracy is that people are fit to choose their rulers because they are capable enough (wise, informed, and kind) to discern who would best represent their interests.

But what's curious to me--and Buddy Christ hit on this when he mentioned that anarchy does not imply chaos--is that once people mention anarchy, the automatic assumption becomes people are degraded, brutish, and far too stupid to exist without governance. Thus it is necessary to rule people.

The contradiction is obvious: people are considered fit to choose rulers unless they don't want to be ruled; then they're unfit animals that need to be ruled.

I prefer the anarchic model that assumes the general goodness and skillfulness of people to lead their own lives. Any enforcement of rules over against a person's opportunity to be sovereign in their own life is, essentially, violence. Thus the anarchist, at his root, is a peaceful person.
Interesting. I'll bet atheists are intelligent enough to deal with that, but google canada without cops, or canadian city without cops, or something in that neighborhood to see how I bet theists would behave unruled. Unfortunately, they are the majority, so while we could form our own society, I'm thinking we would have to protect ourselves from certain barbarians that will not be named here.



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09-02-2011, 05:14 AM
RE: Anarchists
Do you guys see this as an ideal to which an society can eventually evolve to or more as a utopian ideal?

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09-02-2011, 05:34 AM
RE: Anarchists
I sort of get the idea of not electing leaders, but it's hard to imagine establishment without people modifying laws and deciding how to use the tax money.
I don't get how it would work, so I'd like a little presentation of how the anarchist society model would work. How would hospitals, healthcare, education, fire departments, elderly care and such be organized in a non-governed society?

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09-02-2011, 07:34 AM
RE: Anarchists
I'm more curios what social safety nets exist in an anarchist society ?
And how do you protect a group of people , without military aren't you reduced to hiring mercenaries ?
What about police ?
If force is not monopolized by a groups supposed to represent citizens who gets the final say ?
Private prisons have often exploited their status and with the help of corrupt judges kept inmates longer to make more money.How do you prevent that ?
How would this model work on a scale of 7 billion people ?

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09-02-2011, 08:01 AM
RE: Anarchists
(09-02-2011 05:14 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Do you guys see this as an ideal to which an society can eventually evolve to or more as a utopian ideal?

(09-02-2011 05:34 AM)Kikko Wrote:  I sort of get the idea of not electing leaders, but it's hard to imagine establishment without people modifying laws and deciding how to use the tax money.
I don't get how it would work, so I'd like a little presentation of how the anarchist society model would work. How would hospitals, healthcare, education, fire departments, elderly care and such be organized in a non-governed society?

(09-02-2011 07:34 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  I'm more curios what social safety nets exist in an anarchist society ?
And how do you protect a group of people , without military aren't you reduced to hiring mercenaries ?
What about police ?
If force is not monopolized by a groups supposed to represent citizens who gets the final say ?
Private prisons have often exploited their status and with the help of corrupt judges kept inmates longer to make more money.How do you prevent that ?
How would this model work on a scale of 7 billion people ?
Looks like a bunch of Europeans are sceptical. Smile

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09-02-2011, 05:21 PM
RE: Anarchists
We're Europeans , it's what we do Tongue

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09-02-2011, 09:30 PM
 
RE: Anarchists
(09-02-2011 05:14 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Do you guys see this as an ideal to which an society can eventually evolve to or more as a utopian ideal?

Observer,

I see it as an ideal that people could evolve into, yes. I do not think I will see it realised in my life, and I don't think my kids will see it realised in theirs.

That said, I don't think it is an unattainable ideal: if people are left to be who they are (free and self-sovereign) they will naturally seek peace and self-sustenance. When the threat of violence is lifted from people (e.g., enforced taxation) they will naturally help each other as a means to human survival--it's in everyone's better interest that that would be the case.

How's this striking you so far?
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09-02-2011, 09:32 PM
RE: Anarchists
(09-02-2011 09:30 PM)Kthulu Wrote:  How's this striking you so far?

I don't know about The_observer, but to me it looks rather like Communism does. That isn't to say that the two ideals are similar, but rather that they share the same flaw: namely, that humans are dicks.

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09-02-2011, 11:25 PM
RE: Anarchists
Quote:When the threat of violence is lifted from people (e.g., enforced taxation) they will naturally help each other as a means to human survival
So, a doctor will teach his/her skills to someone else naturally, people will naturally produce the equipment for surgeries and people will naturally make and research new medicines, without an organized model of society? Sounds kinda far-fetched.
Everyone would have to be completely motivated to the system for it to work, and that doesn't seem likely, unless all the anarchists get their own piece of land and move there.

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10-02-2011, 12:53 AM
 
RE: Anarchists
(09-02-2011 09:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-02-2011 09:30 PM)Kthulu Wrote:  How's this striking you so far?

I don't know about The_observer, but to me it looks rather like Communism does. That isn't to say that the two ideals are similar, but rather that they share the same flaw: namely, that humans are dicks.

Yes, people behave poorly. However, I don't think such stupidities are natural to people. I think those "dickish" tendencies are as a result of an instinctual reaction to being ruled, or confined somehow by their environment and those who presume to curate their environment.

For me, I hold to a philosophical anarchism because leafing through history, and observing the present highlights one major, major marker: all forms of government, so far, have failed to help those they rule to realise the happiness we all naturally seek.

On a personal note, I don't admit these things as a complaint against the democracy I live in. Not at all. Rather, I admit these things because I think things could be a whole lot better than they presently seem to be if there were no statism at all.
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