Anarchists
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11-02-2011, 05:53 AM
RE: Anarchists
There's one good point anarchists bring up - government has a monopoly on legal use of force.
You mentioned Canada , so check out the following video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEI8WwAJjv8

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11-02-2011, 06:31 AM
RE: Anarchists
(11-02-2011 05:53 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  There's one good point anarchists bring up - government has a monopoly on legal use of force.
You mentioned Canada , so check out the following video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEI8WwAJjv8

That shouldn't be legal. Hopefully the laws allowing that stuff will change. Police officers should be prosecuted for unnecessary use of authority.
And that officer Bubbles' defamation sue is just ridiculous. It's he who should be sued for unnecessary use of authority.

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11-02-2011, 03:30 PM
RE: Anarchists
Actually it's the idea that only the state is allowed to use force - that pretty much makes you a slave to it - I tried to answer this properly but I honestly can't.
Who or what gives the state the right to exert force ?

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11-02-2011, 04:05 PM
RE: Anarchists
(11-02-2011 03:30 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Actually it's the idea that only the state is allowed to use force - that pretty much makes you a slave to it - I tried to answer this properly but I honestly can't.
Who or what gives the state the right to exert force ?

Laws. And the state doesn't do anything, people do. Some give commands and some do the dirty job. If the law allows authorities to use unnecessary force and shut people up, then the laws should be changed, so that everyone has to be responsible for one's own actions. If the goverment and the parlament don't do changes that the people want them to do, the people will either wait for the next elections or rebel.

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12-02-2011, 12:54 AM
RE: Anarchists
Aren't we doing circular logic here : The state is legal because the state says the state is legal ?

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12-02-2011, 02:39 AM
RE: Anarchists
(12-02-2011 12:54 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Aren't we doing circular logic here : The state is legal because the state says the state is legal ?
Ummm... You mean that ''the existance of the state is legal because the state says so'' or ''the states use of power is legal because the state says so''?

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12-02-2011, 03:14 AM
RE: Anarchists
I guess both.
Anytime an anti-statist brings them up I don;t know how to reply.
I'm a lefty myself BTW , but I still feel this question at the back of my brain so that's why I'm playing devil's advocate.

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12-02-2011, 03:50 AM
RE: Anarchists
Quote:the existance of the state is legal because the state says so
Not sure how to answer this. You mean a state as a geological area or as the people who govern the area?
Quote:the states use of power is legal because the state says so
I think it's very unlikely to get the majority of representatives to pass a law that would allow shutting people up and suppress peaceful protesting (in a western country). It would be the kind of a change that would get alot of attention and would become a big current topic. And I doubt that the people living in the country would support it, so if over 50% of the representatives vote yes, most of them will lose their job after the next election. To ensure their chanches of getting into the next parlament, representatives have to try to satisfy their voters.

I'll try to put my thoughts into words better after eating and doing the snow work. But I'll still say this: the people and the state shouldn't be viewed too much as two separate things. The people make the state.

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12-02-2011, 05:33 AM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2011 07:17 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Anarchists
Anthropology sometimes glorifies tribal life (I myself being a student of Anthropology and believer in the values of tribal life). But, tribal life is in no way non governmental. In tribal life you have the things that worked for the people who came before you, and if you dont agree you tend to die. Either through your own error, or the fear of other members of your next error. The peaceful people living in a small community and preparing everything for themselves have a lot of guidelines and rules. They aren't just sitting there being a family because they feel like it.

The abolishment of power has in all cases lead to the resurgence of power, making Communism the closest to equal possible due to the demand that citizens be equal. The only way Anarchy can become more than an ideal is for humans to no longer have a need based life. If the things we need are effortless, (like in fanciful future world scenarios) then we can start talking peace. But, as long as people need something they will put forth all forms of force and malice in order to get it. That is existence as proven by our entire study of life on earth even dating to prehumans. There is always an underlying guideline to keep a group together.

Also, someone mentioned how the nation was being sold out 20 years ago? The nations founding ideals of a government not opressed by rulers be they kings or corporations lasted about 110 years. Then, the Industrial Revolution along with newer citizens who had never lived with the tyranny of previous generations, began to retract the ideas of people holding the most power as individuals.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporat...ns_us.html

Revolutions are great, but the wonderful ideas created by them tend to only last as long as people who remember why, are still largely in charge. Give a few generations in any group with low education or government biased education, and the ideas that caused the revolt will not even seem palpable. The Forefathers were highly educated men during a time when it was rather uncommon for men to be highly educated. Their beliefs went downhill when the people on the pulpits were opposing the current government, and the general public with much less education on the matter, accepted that leeway should be given.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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12-02-2011, 09:40 AM
RE: Anarchists
So in the end social hierarchy and power are inevitable as long as resources and items aren't readily available to all ? And tribal society , although less bureaucratic is in no way free from a force imposed rule-set.That's a very good answer , I'll admit.

Sorry to hear how corporations got so much freedom that they abused the citizens who's labor and currency kept them alive.
Could you provide some actual historic documents on the topic if you can - this is very interesting.

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