Anarchy
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04-01-2012, 02:46 PM
Anarchy
Today at work I listened to The Thinking Atheist Podcast 25. It was about Religion and Politics. The first caller said that he is an anarchist. He talks about his ideas on Anarchy and it got me thinking.

What if we had Anarchy. I mean really no government or Police.
I imagine it like this:
People learn that they have to get along in their communities because they have to trade with each other, they can't just kill or hurt someone because they would have to fear the same. Same goes for stealing.

So if you'd look on it like that it would sound good but let's not forget human nature.
Gangs would trying to rule the rest, they would fight each other to get to the top. Once there they would defend to stay there and scare normal people to get stuff they want and make them obey.
And sooner more than later it would be a Dictatorship because gangs have one person on top that decides. And this person would then be the dictator.

Of course that dictator would have to fear for his life because with an anarchy people would be armed and would try to kill everyone trying to rule them (like that) but as it is a gang they'd have their sources to fight back in a very... convincing... manner.

What are your opinions on that?

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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04-01-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Anarchy
A dictator will have people close enough to them self that they would get special privilege and leadership roles also, so built like a pyramid it would be easier to gain speed and be successful in the dictators position.

Basically Anarchy would regress instead of progress. The government and police are not ideal either. It seems like a more organized somewhat humanist approach, but I think there should be a better solution. Something beyond all of this. Of course utopia is far fetched, however there should be a more balanced system for the people IMO. Like a universal decision making process or something. I just don't know what that would mean though.
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04-01-2012, 03:20 PM
RE: Anarchy
If the world would suddenly loose all of it's governmental structures it would be like wiping away much of what we have evolved into so far !!! We would revert to brute beasts and (as you said) gangs.

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04-01-2012, 03:26 PM
RE: Anarchy
I disagree with you on one point infidel. It would not cause us to revert back to brute beasts, it would simply release the restriction that causes us to appear to be tame.

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04-01-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Anarchy
(04-01-2012 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I disagree with you on one point infidel. It would not cause us to revert back to brute beasts, it would simply release the restriction that causes us to appear to be tame.
You said it better than me.Big Grin

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04-01-2012, 03:34 PM
RE: Anarchy
(04-01-2012 02:46 PM)Leela Wrote:  So if you'd look on it like that it would sound good but let's not forget human nature.

Yeah, let's not forget human nature, shall we? Cooperative, compassionate, loving, kind... no more than three percent asshole.

And you whine! Oh the suffering! Oh the fucking evil! Mankind is a disgrace! Planet would be better off without Man; buncha fucking reptiles...

Sorry, Leela... oops. Some carry-over form your ranting thread. Technocratic anarchy; it's the only way to run a railroad. Thing is, morality is not what many think it is; it is the fucking solution. Bet. Wink

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04-01-2012, 03:38 PM
RE: Anarchy
I tend to think of 3rd world countries and countries with extremely weak governments. There probably aren't a lot out there where this works out for the good of the people- only for the good of a few people, namely those who are the most well-armed.

It can be difficult to get aid to those who need it because of warlords and gangs (or whoever holds the power) intercepting it. And where would that aid come from?

Not everyone would have guns in an anarchy. Whose to say everyone could afford to buy or trade for guns? The items we value today that we think we could trade might not be so valuable come a collapse of the federal and state structures. We'd all like to think we'd be able to acquire a gun so we could protect ourselves, but I'm skeptical that that would be the reality.

Communities would only be able to support each other for so long. Those that did would grow strong and those that don't support each other would probably grow weak. With no government regulation, there's nothing to suggest that they would be able to get resources needed like food and fuel from outside communities.

Maybe there's answers to those types of issues and the others brought up (like warlords, gangs, militias, etc. all trying to gain and keep control).

Anarchy sounds like a terrible thing to me, and like LadyJane said, it would be a regression. It sounds like the pipe-dream of a angst-y teenager rather than an idea worth considering (beyond the hypothetical, I mean) and pursuing.
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04-01-2012, 03:40 PM
RE: Anarchy
hoc:
Got your point. But I am not saying that people in general are evil. You can't tell me that those people who always want to rule others and own everything would disappear the moment we'd have anarchy. And that's the point I was making.


infidel:
Not saying we'd have to make the government fall now. People are not used to that, so of course that would be a desaster. But for example letting it fade away over a few decades. Getting rid of the laws one by one and at some point remove police because their wouldn't be law to protect anymore. If that would be a very slow process it might actually work, though I am not sure of that

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04-01-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: Anarchy
(04-01-2012 03:40 PM)Leela Wrote:  Not saying we'd have to make the government fall now. People are not used to that, so of course that would be a desaster. But for example letting it fade away over a few decades. Getting rid of the laws one by one and at some point remove police because their wouldn't be law to protect anymore. If that would be a very slow process it might actually work, though I am not sure of that

Just think back to the early 1900's and the 1800's when child labor was used by corporations. When food quality standards did not exist and there was nothing stopping a meat packing plant from leaving in their ground meat the accidentally amputated fingers of workers who got too close to the machinery. Think about how if a plague broke out there was no CDC to study it and work towards vaccinations and control. Think if there were no standards for education how easily it would be to control the information available to them.

All of these things and more suggest to me that letting even just it fade away is a scary idea. It's worrying enough to me that the Libertarian ideals tend toward that goal of less federal government. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fascist, I don't think an overwhelming government is the answer. But a balanced approach and a healthy government has provided us with the ability to be where we are now and communicating with the methods we're using today.
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04-01-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: Anarchy
I think we would need to become perfect in order to be governed by nothing more than our own minds. Maybe if we had a REAL god who was REALLY Love, Peace, Perfect,Spirit and Holy we would need no other governor.

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