Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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20-03-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 11:11 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I'm not quite clear where you stand on Marx/Mao, or capitalism.

I'm not quite sure why you're seemingly mentioning Marx and Mao in one breath. Marx was a philosopher like so many in his time. He and Engels developed a model to counter the excesses of the Industrial Revolution they witnessed. They had no political power, as opposed to Mao. Reading the writings of Marx it should be quite obvious that Mao's society wasn't what he had envisioned.
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20-03-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:04 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 12:54 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Fred

You're a believer.

The safe money is to be a hater. Hate Mao to the depths of your bone marrow. Hate him like you hate Nixon. It feels great. It feels great to breathe in the truth that there's nothing out there for us.

Shit is not delicious. It tastes like shit.
I'm serious about the topic, but thanks for the advice, Fred.

I'm serious, too. You're just spouting dogma. You're like a fundie blasting off with endless bible verses. Instead of sounding iconoclastic you sound generic. You can't sell anything when you're reading a script.
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20-03-2017, 01:17 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 12:56 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 11:11 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I'm not quite clear where you stand on Marx/Mao, or capitalism.

I'm indifferent to all.

Back in the early 80s I had the opportunity to visit a few counties in what was then Eastern Europe, I cannot say the people I met, shared food with and spoke with were overly thrilled with their lot in life. I'm also wonderful friends with a family that used to live in China, and they wouldn't say their life was great either.

I do understand with our current political flavors with "special interest groups" muddying the water with their deep pockets, campaign donations, and producing "studies" from "think tanks" that avoid the peer review process -- but I digress. No system is perfect.

I do believe education is the key to real change and it does take a lot of time. Quick changes are wrought with fears that aren't easily overcome.
Note to self, "Mom indifferent to all". Got it. One point, so-comm societies are not easy to get going or sustain in the globally controlled milieu of capitalist states, namely the USA, who fight and embargo the so-commies in every conceivable way. So-comm Cuba, for e.g., could be an incredibly more prosperous scene if the US trade embargo wasn't sitting on them like a big fat gorilla since their inception. And China is not the same China post Mao. I'm mostly interested in Maoist China. Still, most the big industries are state run with much smaller income gaps. The US embargo on Cuba is rather genocidal in it's intentions.

Education is necessary and great, just what type is the thing.
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20-03-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:I do believe education is the key to real change

Educated people often use their knowledge to do shitty things.

The physicists who experimented with hydrogen bombs on The Bikini Atoll were as educated as it gets.

Does this mean we stop educating people? Physicists are also responsible for us going to the moon and beginning to explore our solar system. I cannot throw the baby out with the bath water.

Also, I do believe that was a time of war, while I don't like the idea that we invented it and later used it, I also can't say that I don't understand why we did.

(Just a weird aside) my husband's physics teacher was a student of Oppenheimer when he taught at Berkeley. Also, without understanding physics and radiation, my man wouldn't be able to do his job. So there's that.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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20-03-2017, 01:24 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:12 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:04 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I'm serious about the topic, but thanks for the advice, Fred.

I'm serious, too. You're just spouting dogma. You're like a fundie blasting off with endless bible verses. Instead of sounding iconoclastic you sound generic. You can't sell anything when you're reading a script.
Okie dokie Fred, thanks for the input. Wink
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20-03-2017, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 01:30 PM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:04 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 11:11 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I'm not quite clear where you stand on Marx/Mao, or capitalism.

I'm not quite sure why you're seemingly mentioning Marx and Mao in one breath. Marx was a philosopher like so many in his time. He and Engels developed a model to counter the excesses of the Industrial Revolution they witnessed. They had no political power, as opposed to Mao. Reading the writings of Marx it should be quite obvious that Mao's society wasn't what he had envisioned.
Mao based his approach heavily from Marx's writings and enacted them with a great deal of success. Thats the problem, so-comm works. Marx and Engels were dead before any of the big so-comm revolutions, which were all based on their writings-- though he did have a direct hand in the 1st International in France. From Lenin to Mao to Castro to Che' to Ho Chi Minh, and more, all based on Marx.
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20-03-2017, 01:28 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Also, I do believe that was a time of war, while I don't like the idea that we invented it and later used it, I also can't say that I don't understand why we did.

Doesn't excuse obvious crimes against humanity though. And these experiments hed little regard for the native population - as well as the GIs being put in the vicinity to study how their bodies reacted.

But it's got nothing to do with education. If someone's an asshole, education or lack thereoff doesn't come into the equation. To take the poster boys of badness, the Nazi criminals came in all shapes and colors. Highly educated ones and others having problems writing their own names.
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20-03-2017, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 01:48 PM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Educated people often use their knowledge to do shitty things.

The physicists who experimented with hydrogen bombs on The Bikini Atoll were as educated as it gets.

Does this mean we stop educating people? Physicists are also responsible for us going to the moon and beginning to explore our solar system. I cannot throw the baby out with the bath water.

Also, I do believe that was a time of war, while I don't like the idea that we invented it and later used it, I also can't say that I don't understand why we did.

(Just a weird aside) my husband's physics teacher was a student of Oppenheimer when he taught at Berkeley. Also, without understanding physics and radiation, my man wouldn't be able to do his job. So there's that.
Kinda need physics in the modern world, yeah, oh for just...everything! The military industrial complex often employs the best scientists and makes them do "bad things", very "bad things". But they are getting paid the big $ and have a steady job, so they generally are ok with doing the "bad things", if they are even aware of them.
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20-03-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Educated people often use their knowledge to do shitty things.

The physicists who experimented with hydrogen bombs on The Bikini Atoll were as educated as it gets.

Does this mean we stop educating people? Physicists are also responsible for us going to the moon and beginning to explore our solar system. I cannot throw the baby out with the bath water.

Also, I do believe that was a time of war, while I don't like the idea that we invented it and later used it, I also can't say that I don't understand why we did.

(Just a weird aside) my husband's physics teacher was a student of Oppenheimer when he taught at Berkeley. Also, without understanding physics and radiation, my man wouldn't be able to do his job. So there's that.

I hear ya and of course it makes sense. I'm a teacher (as you might know) and the "education is the key" panacea wears thin. To me it seems like if education is the key then there must be a lot of locks. Also, I think you need to read up on The Marshall Islands and I'm not saying that to be a dick.
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20-03-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 04:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Stalin did massively curtail the power and influence of the Russian Orthodox church at first, but he was motivated by political rather than ideological gain; the Orthodoxy had sided with the Czars and the rest of the establishment power structures against the revolutionaries.
Exactly. Many authoritarian governments -- not all of them communist, by any means -- have suppressed religion because it represented a potential organizational force alternative to their own. Thus religion was seen as a threat to their political power.

This is quite at odds with claims sometimes made by theists that such authoritarians were actively promoting atheism, or acting "in the name of atheism".

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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