Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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20-03-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:28 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Also, I do believe that was a time of war, while I don't like the idea that we invented it and later used it, I also can't say that I don't understand why we did.

Doesn't excuse obvious crimes against humanity though. And these experiments hed little regard for the native population - as well as the GIs being put in the vicinity to study how their bodies reacted.

But it's got nothing to do with education. If someone's an asshole, education or lack thereoff doesn't come into the equation. To take the poster boys of badness, the Nazi criminals came in all shapes and colors. Highly educated ones and others having problems writing their own names.
Imperialist war constitutes a major aspect of the normal, natural functioning of the capitalist state. It's to be expected and the best scientists will be employed as such, whether that cap-state be the US or Nazi Germany or Britain or France, etc. Capitalism being capitalism. If you want all your cool stuff for cheap, there must be imperialist war abroad to get the resources and cheap labor.
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20-03-2017, 01:44 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:27 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Mao based his approach heavily from Marx's writings and enacted them with a great deal of success. Thats the problem, so-comm works. Marx and Engels were dead before any of the big so-comm revolutions, which were all based on their writings-- though he did have a direct hand in the 1st International in France. From Lenin to Mao to Castro to Che' to Ho Chi Minh, and more, all based on Marx.

And so did the social democrats in Europe or the workers Unions in the USA for that matter. Without Marx' ideas our world would look very different today. Most democracies have implemented at least some elements of his ideas that moved our societies into a more socially just direction. We all profit from his ideas, yet for some reasons, most people only look at the ones raping them for their own goals.
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20-03-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Quote:From Lenin to Mao to Castro to Che' to Ho Chi Minh, and more, all based on Marx.

lol

Are you also going to try to sell us on Pol Pot and Stalin?
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20-03-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 04:35 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I am an atheist and Marxist Socialist/Communist with a healthy respect for anarchists. Communism and anarchism are quite related. My experience debating with atheist USers and Western Euros is that they are almost all dedicated capitalists and, just like believer capitalists, they vehemently attack Socialists/Communists with the typical anti-commie propaganda they have been brainwashed with, despite their so-called "rationalism". The human brain is easily compartmentalized and can be rational in some areas and irrational in others.
True for many USAns, Fred, but not for all of us. I'm born and raised in the US, yet somehow I turned out both atheist and anarchist.

What you say about the relations between anarchists and Communists is quite true; both were instrumental in the early labor movement in this country. Seems like it was mostly the anarchists, though, that got accused of tossing bombs and starting riots. Comes with the territory, I suppose.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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20-03-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:39 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Does this mean we stop educating people? Physicists are also responsible for us going to the moon and beginning to explore our solar system. I cannot throw the baby out with the bath water.

Also, I do believe that was a time of war, while I don't like the idea that we invented it and later used it, I also can't say that I don't understand why we did.

(Just a weird aside) my husband's physics teacher was a student of Oppenheimer when he taught at Berkeley. Also, without understanding physics and radiation, my man wouldn't be able to do his job. So there's that.

I hear ya and of course it makes sense. I'm a teacher (as you might know) and the "education is the key" panacea wears thin. To me it seems like if education is the key then there must be a lot of locks. Also, I think you need to read up on The Marshall Islands and I'm not saying that to be a dick.

Yes i get it and yes I've read about it. No, I don't think you're being a dick. Smile


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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20-03-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Quote:We all profit from his ideas, yet for some reasons, most people only look at the ones raping them for their own goals.

When your examples of success are Mao and Ho Chi Minh you got a serious public relations problem.

But yeah, you're totally right.
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20-03-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:41 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 04:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Stalin did massively curtail the power and influence of the Russian Orthodox church at first, but he was motivated by political rather than ideological gain; the Orthodoxy had sided with the Czars and the rest of the establishment power structures against the revolutionaries.
Exactly. Many authoritarian governments -- not all of them communist, by any means -- have suppressed religion because it represented a potential organizational force alternative to their own. Thus religion was seen as a threat to their political power.

This is quite at odds with claims sometimes made by theists that such authoritarians were actively promoting atheism, or acting "in the name of atheism".
Also, as in, say, the Maoist rev, the oppressed peasants frequently took it upon themselves to go after the various clergymen who had been oppressing them for decades/centuries and it usually wasn't pretty.

Anyone who can provide any hard evidence proving ANY so-comm state as legislating anti-religion, pro-atheist policy into law will be the first person to do that, because it's never happened.
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20-03-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:53 PM)ImFred Wrote:  When your examples of success are Mao and Ho Chi Minh you got a serious public relations problem.

But yeah, you're totally right.

That's not what I would take as examples, although there's still lightyears of differences between Ho and Mao.
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20-03-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:49 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 04:35 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I am an atheist and Marxist Socialist/Communist with a healthy respect for anarchists. Communism and anarchism are quite related. My experience debating with atheist USers and Western Euros is that they are almost all dedicated capitalists and, just like believer capitalists, they vehemently attack Socialists/Communists with the typical anti-commie propaganda they have been brainwashed with, despite their so-called "rationalism". The human brain is easily compartmentalized and can be rational in some areas and irrational in others.
True for many USAns, Fred, but not for all of us. I'm born and raised in the US, yet somehow I turned out both atheist and anarchist.

What you say about the relations between anarchists and Communists is quite true; both were instrumental in the early labor movement in this country. Seems like it was mostly the anarchists, though, that got accused of tossing bombs and starting riots. Comes with the territory, I suppose.
Well, many of the anarchists, or anachism generally stated, frequently advocate for direct violent action v the state and/or capitalists. But the serious so-comms are revolutionary and usually have the numbers to carry out the battles/wars--and they engaged in various sabotage too.
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20-03-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  You are speaking figuratively, not literally, using metaphor rather than fact. Marxism is not a religion. It is a science based on the theory of "Historical Materialism". It focuses on the control of resources and means of production in human society. It does not offer any belief in a God(s), which is central to religion.
Ooh... I had many a long heated argument with a particular Christian apologist on just that point. He insisted that Marxism was a religion.

To the argument that Marxism has no "God", he would counter that there are godless religions -- Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto, etc. I pointed out that all religions -- theist and godless alike -- shared one characteristic that Marxism lacked: an element of mysticism. All religions are focused far more on an alleged "next life" than they are on the here and now.

He never did come up with a good response to that.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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