Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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20-03-2017, 02:00 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 02:40 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:49 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:From Lenin to Mao to Castro to Che' to Ho Chi Minh, and more, all based on Marx.

lol

Are you also going to try to sell us on Pol Pot and Stalin?

That's quite possible given that he thinks that people hate mustached Georgian without good reason.

I think it's trolling though as I doubt that someone stupid enough to consider Mao his hero and thinking that people hate Stalin cause they're told to do so would be capable of turning on pc.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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20-03-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:58 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Well, many of the anarchists, or anachism generally stated, frequently advocate for direct violent action v the state and/or capitalists.

Well. over at AF there was one shortlived guy arguing for anarcho capitalism as his desired model. Capitalism going rogue without any checks or regulations. So I wouldn't base my judgment on self declared anarchists on the turn of the 20th century, with a kife in one hand and the bomb in the other.
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20-03-2017, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 02:09 PM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 01:44 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:27 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Mao based his approach heavily from Marx's writings and enacted them with a great deal of success. Thats the problem, so-comm works. Marx and Engels were dead before any of the big so-comm revolutions, which were all based on their writings-- though he did have a direct hand in the 1st International in France. From Lenin to Mao to Castro to Che' to Ho Chi Minh, and more, all based on Marx.

And so did the social democrats in Europe or the workers Unions in the USA for that matter. Without Marx' ideas our world would look very different today. Most democracies have implemented at least some elements of his ideas that moved our societies into a more socially just direction. We all profit from his ideas, yet for some reasons, most people only look at the ones raping them for their own goals.
Correct. Social Security, for e.g., brought to USers by US socialists/communists and unionists. I'm always happy to accept anyone's signed over SS check, should they feel it is "too commie" for them. Wink You never see the capitalist owners out there protesting for more rights and $ for the People/workers. It's a CLASS war, we're init, born into it.
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20-03-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 06:55 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Actually "science" is too strong and misleading a word. Socialism and Communism are political philosophies which are often considered highly idealistic in their estimations of human psychology and motivations -- i.e., inaccurate, and therefore prone to failures of various sorts.

Undecided
You have a point, Jay. However, I'd say that you could certainly make a case for Marxism being a social science, if not a hard science like physics.

And let's not forget that even the so-called hard sciences grew out of what was once known as "natural philosophy".

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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20-03-2017, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2017 01:32 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:02 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 01:58 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Well, many of the anarchists, or anachism generally stated, frequently advocate for direct violent action v the state and/or capitalists.

Well. over at AF there was one shortlived guy arguing for anarcho capitalism as his desired model. Capitalism going rogue without any checks or regulations. So I wouldn't base my judgment on self declared anarchists on the turn of the 20th century, with a kife in one hand and the bomb in the other.
Words have definitions, ergo they mean something. "Anarcho-capitalist" is a self contradictory term and therefore false and useless. Anarchism is w/o hierarchy, whereas capitalism is by definition hierarchical, so those people are disinformed: they are categorically NOT anarchists, they are capitalists that dont like much gov't. Unfettered capitalism is the goal of fascism.

"An-Caps"(or Libertarians) are more properly called, "Stateless Capitalists". I just call them, "fascists", since that is what they are.
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20-03-2017, 02:13 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)PaulPablo Wrote:  I can't think of an example of a country that has chosen anarchy for any reasons of any sentiment.

The concept of a "country" -- ie., nationalism -- is in many ways incompatible with anarchism.

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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20-03-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:13 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Unfettered capitalism is the goal of fascism.

Not really, no. Fascism likes to regulate. There hasn't been one fascist regime where capitalism was allowed to roam entirely free.

(20-03-2017 02:13 PM)Dr H Wrote:  The concept of a "country" -- ie., nationalism -- is in many ways incompatible with anarchism.

It's incompatible with communism also.
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20-03-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:05 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 06:55 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Actually "science" is too strong and misleading a word. Socialism and Communism are political philosophies which are often considered highly idealistic in their estimations of human psychology and motivations -- i.e., inaccurate, and therefore prone to failures of various sorts.

Undecided
You have a point, Jay. However, I'd say that you could certainly make a case for Marxism being a social science, if not a hard science like physics.

And let's not forget that even the so-called hard sciences grew out of what was once known as "natural philosophy".
Historical Materialism is far more hard science than, say, psychology.
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20-03-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:16 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 02:13 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Unfettered capitalism is the goal of fascism.

Not really, no. Fascism likes to regulate. There hasn't been one fascist regime where capitalism was allowed to roam entirely free.
Capitalism completely unregulated would collapse overnight. There is no such thing in today's world. Capitalism is heavily state subsidized in all advanced industrial countries. But the fascists DO want as little regulation as possible:
Libertarian/Mises/Rand school.
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20-03-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:20 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  But the fascists DO want as little regulation as possible:
Libertarian/Mises/Rand school.

Objectivism, as much as I dislike Rand's ideas, isn't fascism. Libertarianism isn't fascism either. Both are basically egotistical approaches of every man for himself.

Fascist regimes were regulating heavily. They didn't outright forbid capitalism, but it had to play by their rules.
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