Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-03-2017, 03:25 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 08:21 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Her "main squeeze"
Berkman.

Quote:attempted to assassinate Carnegie's henchman, Frick, but with his little pee shooter pistol that he and Emma had bought with their last dollar, he was such a hack shooter that he failed to kill him at point blank range--and proceeded to be hung for the crime, if I recall.
He was sentenced to 22 years; served 14, much of if in solitary confinement.

He opposed conscription during WWI, which was used as an excuse to imprison him (and Goldman) under the Espionage Act.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 03:45 PM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 03:09 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 07:17 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Therefore, capitalist States, like the USA, have heavy, systematic anti Marxist/socialist/communist/anarchist propaganda, in order to protect the capitalist State. Similarly, Marxist socialist/communist States, like the USSR or Maoist China, or Castro's Cuba or the DPRK, have anti capitalist/class propaganda in order to protect their political socioeconomic order.
Marxist states haven't been any easier on anarchists than have capitalist states. The operative word here is "state". Anarchists don't believe that there should be a state, and are therefore viewed as a threat to any state, regardless of its economic ideology.

Anarchists in the Gulag

Cuban Anarchism: The History of A Movement -- Chapter 5: Exile and Shadows (1961–2001)

Anarchists played an important part in the Chinese revolution, but by 1961 they were fleeing for their lives into exile.
The Chinese Anarchist Movement -- The Anarchist Conflict with Marxism

The Shanghai Commune and the rightist reaction -- Part IV: The suppression of the Left in China

Suppression of anarchists in China continues to this day.
China: Anarchist Chen Xi sentenced to 10 years in prison for “inciting subversion”
Marx didnt "believe" or particularly like the state either, but saw it as necessary. Thats why he called it, "The Communist Manifesto" instead of, "The Socialist Manifesto".

To the anarchists I say, "good luck" trying to take over a global industrial economy w/o some sort of state(s) for awhile(~100yrs, so sayeth Marx/Mao). That doesnt mean states necessarily should be oppressive Mao, tried his best to avoid all that. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. If you have guerilla insurgences trying to bring down what millions of people are working toward. I dont know why exactly he came down on anarchists, but it was prolly for the usual reasons. Mao also had to fight off the Japanese Nazis that were invading and China's own Nazi Shang Kai Shek and his gang. All this while a famine is going on in the transition period, so he's trying to deal with that.

Also, your boys anarchists during and shortly thereafter the Bolshevik Rev kind of went around murdering as many peasant farmers as they could find both in Russia and the Ukraine, so there WAS some backlash at them from the Soviets. The anarchists and so-comms generally dont see eye to eye on fundamental organizational issues, so there's the rub. But ideally, anarchism and communism are pretty much the same thing, I suppose, in an idyllic sort of way.

When anarchists have the numbers and a real organized plan, then maybe they can conduct a revolution somewhere and gain power and hold onto it. Otherwise, their small sabotage, guerilla tactics are going to get them into trouble every time. The anarchists should just join the communists, is my opinion. Marx was light years beyond what any of the anarchist writers had to say. Bakunin didnt really write in any organized fashion at all, and he didnt say a whole lot. He was mainly just out there getting in his licks.

(I'll read those links when I get some time, thanks.)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 09:47 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Fred is entitled to admire Mao, one of the biggest bringers of misery to humanity, and i am entitled to find that repulsive.
I don't especially admire Mao, but realistically, as much misery as he brought, he displaced and replaced a system which was also bringing huge misery to most of the Chinese population, and holding them back from any hope of improvement. The country was basically being run be warlords, it had no international standing, its resources were being pillaged by foreign powers, and it was invaded and occupied by the Japanese, who massacred great numbers of Chinese.

Mao managed to unify the country, get rid of the foreign exploiters, and bring the country into the 20th century as a world power. Granted, he did it at the cost of millions of lives, but it's arguable that if China had kept on going the way it was without Mao's revolution, millions of lives would have been lost, regardless.

This isn't quite like saying "well, Il Duce did make the trains run on time", but history does require some perspective . . .

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Once things get organized they get corrupted. One of the many reasons there's really no point.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 03:50 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 12:00 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  (US)Libertarianism, which is extreme far right capitalist w fascist roots, and Authoritarian, AOK, no problemo?

There are right-libertarians, and left-libertarians.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Quote:I don't especially admire Mao, but realistically, as much misery as he brought, he displaced and replaced a system which was also bringing huge misery to most of the Chinese population, and holding them back from any hope of improvement. The country was basically being run be warlords

The peasants had been oppressed by centuries of fuedalism. Just the idea of change was unthinkable. Mao had a great common enemy in the oppressiveness of the traditional culture. The form of oppression they were suffering under died, too. Irrigation and other essential advances were brought to many millions. Sadly, he turned out to ultimately be a horrible tyrant. If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs... but he killed all the chickens too.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes I'mFred's post
20-03-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 12:56 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I do believe education is the key to real change and it does take a lot of time. Quick changes are wrought with fears that aren't easily overcome.

Well said.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 03:59 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 03:25 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 08:21 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Her "main squeeze"
Berkman.

Quote:attempted to assassinate Carnegie's henchman, Frick, but with his little pee shooter pistol that he and Emma had bought with their last dollar, he was such a hack shooter that he failed to kill him at point blank range--and proceeded to be hung for the crime, if I recall.
He was sentenced to 22 years; served 14, much of if in solitary confinement.

He opposed conscription during WWI, which was used as an excuse to imprison him (and Goldman) under the Espionage Act.
Hmmm, I thought Then Man offed Berkman. Maybe he met Eugene Debs in prison for the same reason.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 04:04 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 03:58 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:I don't especially admire Mao, but realistically, as much misery as he brought, he displaced and replaced a system which was also bringing huge misery to most of the Chinese population, and holding them back from any hope of improvement. The country was basically being run be warlords

The peasants had been oppressed by centuries of fuedalism. Just the idea of change was unthinkable. Mao had a great common enemy in the oppressiveness of the traditional culture. The form of oppression they were suffering under died, too. Irrigation and other essential advances were brought to many millions. Sadly, he turned out to ultimately be a horrible tyrant. If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs... but he killed all the chickens too.
Fred, you were going great until the "horrible tyrant" part. Mao was not that. If he were, he wouldnt have been so beloved by nearly a billion previously dirt poor peasants, whose lives he and they utterly transformed, at least for a time. He hadn't much time or patience for counter-revolutionaries, though.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2017, 04:08 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 03:50 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 12:00 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  (US)Libertarianism, which is extreme far right capitalist w fascist roots, and Authoritarian, AOK, no problemo?

There are right-libertarians, and left-libertarians.
Yeah, left libTs in FRANCE, like 200 yrs ago. US libTs are FAR RIGHT, Ayn Rand, Mises, John Birch, League of the South, Alex Jones capitalists. Capitalism is RiGHT. So-comm is LEFT.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: