Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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20-03-2017, 04:09 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:13 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Words have definitions, ergo they mean something. "Anarcho-capitalist" is a self contradictory term and therefore false and useless.
Fred, you are going to have an "interesting" time of it, telling anarchists what is and is not anarchy.

I wish you luck. Yes

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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20-03-2017, 04:11 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:16 PM)abaris Wrote:  It's incompatible with communism also.

With some forms of communism, perhaps. Others advocate for a state-socialism. This is a point on which many anarchists broke with the Bolsheviks, and later, with Mao's revolution.

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20-03-2017, 04:14 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:16 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Historical Materialism is far more hard science than, say, psychology.

<shrug> I don't know if I'd say that; neuropsychology, for example, is a pretty hard science.

I'd put historical materialism on the same rung, perhaps, as economics.

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20-03-2017, 04:16 PM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2017 01:27 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 03:44 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 09:47 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Fred is entitled to admire Mao, one of the biggest bringers of misery to humanity, and i am entitled to find that repulsive.
I don't especially admire Mao, but realistically, as much misery as he brought, he displaced and replaced a system which was also bringing huge misery to most of the Chinese population, and holding them back from any hope of improvement. The country was basically being run be warlords, it had no international standing, its resources were being pillaged by foreign powers, and it was invaded and occupied by the Japanese, who massacred great numbers of Chinese.

Mao managed to unify the country, get rid of the foreign exploiters, and bring the country into the 20th century as a world power. Granted, he did it at the cost of millions of lives, but it's arguable that if China had kept on going the way it was without Mao's revolution, millions of lives would have been lost, regardless.

This isn't quite like saying "well, Il Duce did make the trains run on time", but history does require some perspective . . .
We're talking like a billion peasants here, k? ~3X Murican population TODAY! Mao was NOT in charge of an entire Red Army for the entire massive country, they sort of existed in factions led by factional leaders. Many of them kind of "went off their own" doing "bad things" to the "bad bourgeois people" that they felt had been their oppressors. Mao couldn't keep this eye on or do much anything about that. And there's a famine in the transition, so Mao's trying to focus the people and get the collective farming thing up and running so people wouldn't starve. And then there are the Nazi Japs and Shang Kai Shek. And there're prlly naggy anarchists up in his face causing trouble. It's not just a one pony show here and the shit's real deep and complicado. It is gross reductionist thinking to just say, "Mao was a tyrant that intentionally killed X # of people", etc. It's not even accurate.
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20-03-2017, 04:22 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 02:24 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Here's some extra ammo for you: Buddhist-->"Great Brahma", Taoist--->"The Great Mother of All Things"(that CREATED the Tao), Shintoists--->pagan "nature spirits". No God(s), no religion.
Nah, you're quibbling over a definition of "god". there are, in fact, godless religions.

The key quality is much more basic than that: every religion -- every one -- contains some element of the mystical. In some religions that manifests as "deity". It others it appears as the supernatural; as survival (after death, say, of ancestors); or karma; or "subtle" energy; or yin/yang, etc.

It is not necessary to have a god, in order to have a religion. But it is necessary to have a mystical element, outside of nature, unsupported (and for practical purposes unsupported) by evidence.

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20-03-2017, 04:28 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 05:35 PM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 04:14 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 02:16 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Historical Materialism is far more hard science than, say, psychology.

<shrug> I don't know if I'd say that; neuropsychology, for example, is a pretty hard science.

I'd put historical materialism on the same rung, perhaps, as economics.
Uh, k. Take a stroll on down to your local psych ward and see first hand just how "groovy" psych science is doing these days.
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20-03-2017, 04:30 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 04:16 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Mao couldn't keep this eye on or do much anything about that. And there's a famine in the transition, so Mao's trying to focus the people and get the collective farming thing up and running so people wouldn't starve.

I don't know where you get your informations from, but it was actually Mao being responsible for the famine. The peasants were made to produce steel, which led to the biggest famine in human recorded history. As far as deaths go, Mao dwarfs the likes of Stalin or Hitler. He was directly responsible for as many victims as had died in WWII.
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20-03-2017, 04:34 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 04:22 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 02:24 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Here's some extra ammo for you: Buddhist-->"Great Brahma", Taoist--->"The Great Mother of All Things"(that CREATED the Tao), Shintoists--->pagan "nature spirits". No God(s), no religion.
Nah, you're quibbling over a definition of "god". there are, in fact, godless religions.

The key quality is much more basic than that: every religion -- every one -- contains some element of the mystical. In some religions that manifests as "deity". It others it appears as the supernatural; as survival (after death, say, of ancestors); or karma; or "subtle" energy; or yin/yang, etc.

It is not necessary to have a god, in order to have a religion. But it is necessary to have a mystical element, outside of nature, unsupported (and for practical purposes unsupported) by evidence.
The "mystical" implies some sort of non natural law occurring phenomena, if that be just plain ol' "spirits". Lao Tsu makes reference to "The Mother of the Tao", i.e., a Creator of the Tao, way back in the day. If it is just some kind of nebulous "energy" concept, then it effectively isnt religion, just ask Dawkins. Really, we're talking about religions that have Grade A supernatural 4D God(s) that do stuff, in the human material world, they intervene, which is what most people believe and what they're religions are all about. People can shout all they want that Marxism is a religion but they are wrong.
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20-03-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 04:30 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 04:16 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Mao couldn't keep this eye on or do much anything about that. And there's a famine in the transition, so Mao's trying to focus the people and get the collective farming thing up and running so people wouldn't starve.

I don't know where you get your informations from, but it was actually Mao being responsible for the famine. The peasants were made to produce steel, which led to the biggest famine in human recorded history. As far as deaths go, Mao dwarfs the likes of Stalin or Hitler. He was directly responsible for as many victims as had died in WWII.
Really? Supply some proof, links, please.
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20-03-2017, 04:40 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2017 04:47 PM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(20-03-2017 04:09 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(20-03-2017 02:13 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Words have definitions, ergo they mean something. "Anarcho-capitalist" is a self contradictory term and therefore false and useless.
Fred, you are going to have an "interesting" time of it, telling anarchists what is and is not anarchy.

I wish you luck. Yes
Organizing anarchists is like herding cats. The anarchists will never gain power over anything, so keep on keepin' on breaking those Starbucks' windows and throwing rocks at cops and hiding out in squattages. The Man is shaking in his shoes.
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