Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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07-04-2017, 03:15 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(22-02-2017 09:07 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Anarchy is the result of a desire to be free from the lot of it, and have real personal liberty, without monarchs, presidents, priests, or other shamen telling us what to do.
I just don't see, in an anarchy system how you get roads, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, dispute arbitration, environmental protection, fire/ambulance services, rules on commerce, support for the poor etc.
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07-04-2017, 03:35 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 03:15 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-02-2017 09:07 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Anarchy is the result of a desire to be free from the lot of it, and have real personal liberty, without monarchs, presidents, priests, or other shamen telling us what to do.
I just don't see, in an anarchy system how you get roads, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, dispute arbitration, environmental protection, fire/ambulance services, rules on commerce, support for the poor etc.

Because you don't.

Fun Fact: It's possible to, under the baseline assumptions of anarcho-capitalism, to build yourself up to a hereditary monarchy. The baseline assumptions and tenets about property ownership and how it changes hands do nothing to prevent one person from consolidating enough property to become a de facto hereditary monarch.

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07-04-2017, 01:06 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 03:15 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-02-2017 09:07 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Anarchy is the result of a desire to be free from the lot of it, and have real personal liberty, without monarchs, presidents, priests, or other shamen telling us what to do.
I just don't see, in an anarchy system how you get roads, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, dispute arbitration, environmental protection, fire/ambulance services, rules on commerce, support for the poor etc.

For starters, you'd need to have a much smaller population than 7+ billion people.
If that were accomplished, you'd need fewer of all those things, and humanity would be having much less environmental impact.

The rest is accomplished through personal responsibility and social contracts.

Quite likely pure anarchy is, like pure democracy, or pure communism, an ultimately unobtainable ideal.
That doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy horizon to strive towards.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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07-04-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 03:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fun Fact: It's possible to, under the baseline assumptions of anarcho-capitalism, to build yourself up to a hereditary monarchy.
Perhaps.

I am not, however, an anarcho-capitalist. I am a social anarchist. Wink

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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07-04-2017, 02:51 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 01:06 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 03:15 AM)Stevil Wrote:  I just don't see, in an anarchy system how you get roads, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, dispute arbitration, environmental protection, fire/ambulance services, rules on commerce, support for the poor etc.

For starters, you'd need to have a much smaller population than 7+ billion people.
If that were accomplished, you'd need fewer of all those things, and humanity would be having much less environmental impact.

The rest is accomplished through personal responsibility and social contracts.

Quite likely pure anarchy is, like pure democracy, or pure communism, an ultimately unobtainable ideal.
That doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy horizon to strive towards.
No, don't understand what you are saying.

Are you saying that you need to kill most people so that the population isn't as impacting on the environment? Without coordinated government, who is going to take it as their personal responsibility to reduce global population?

Who is going to take it as responsibility to provide roads and hospitals and schools etc. People ultimately look after their self interest, most will try to hoard and let others pay, ultimately no-one will pay, you will not have any public schools or roads etc.

The idea that people will just volunter to provide these things is a pipe dream.
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07-04-2017, 03:57 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Last I checked the government was made up of people. If people can't be trusted...
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07-04-2017, 04:44 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 01:06 PM)Dr H Wrote:  The rest is accomplished through personal responsibility and social contracts.

And that's where all social models failed. We're still territorial chimps at heart. Sharing, especially out of our group, isn't in our nature.

Communism, anarchism - they all asked for something that isn't human. To share and be content with what is voluntarilly shared. Capitalism is more in our nature. There's a natural greed in us. But I laugh at everyone proposing something like anarcho capitalism. That would be a sheer nightmare with everything being up for sale. The roads, emergency services, the military and all basic needs. Can't afford it, sad day for you. Rot in the streets if you please. Or don't, since the roads are a source of income, so we better do away with you, since you're devaluating our property by your presence there.

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07-04-2017, 07:50 PM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 03:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Last I checked the government was made up of people. If people can't be trusted...

People can't be trusted to do the right things for the common good; that is why there are laws and government.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-04-2017, 02:19 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Is that something like Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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08-04-2017, 02:48 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 01:08 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 03:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fun Fact: It's possible to, under the baseline assumptions of anarcho-capitalism, to build yourself up to a hereditary monarchy.
Perhaps.

I am not, however, an anarcho-capitalist. I am a social anarchist. Wink

Oh, you can get there with libertarianism too.

Remove the few rules libertainism has for property and it's transfer with rule-less anarchy, and there's even less stopping the emergence of monarchy.

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