Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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08-04-2017, 03:27 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(08-04-2017 02:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Remove the few rules libertainism has for property and it's transfer with rule-less anarchy, and there's even less stopping the emergence of monarchy.

Show me one socal species that lives in a leaderless environment. That's not how we tick. You'd have to remove us from being a social species, but then it's every man for himself.

Anarchy can't work. We couldn't survive, since a leader or a group (democracy) is needed to make at least the basic decisions for us to survive in our environment.

Our societies are far from perfect and there's a lot of room for improvement. But the old social models all failed because of our basic nature of what we can and can't achieve on our own. And working towards a greater good of the group without there being an incentive isn't in our nature also.

And let's be honest with ourself here. Not even the culture or state we belong to serves as our group. It's our immediate circle of friends and family that does. The clan of a few dozen people at the most. We may feel some remote uneasyness if someone outside that immediate circle is in peril or dies, but we don't really relate on a personal level.

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08-04-2017, 03:59 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(08-04-2017 03:27 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 02:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Remove the few rules libertainism has for property and it's transfer with rule-less anarchy, and there's even less stopping the emergence of monarchy.

Show me one socal species that lives in a leaderless environment. That's not how we tick. You'd have to remove us from being a social species, but then it's every man for himself.

Anarchy can't work. We couldn't survive, since a leader or a group (democracy) is needed to make at least the basic decisions for us to survive in our environment.

Our societies are far from perfect and there's a lot of room for improvement. But the old social models all failed because of our basic nature of what we can and can't achieve on our own. And working towards a greater good of the group without there being an incentive isn't in our nature also.

And let's be honest with ourself here. Not even the culture or state we belong to serves as our group. It's our immediate circle of friends and family that does. The clan of a few dozen people at the most. We may feel some remote uneasyness if someone outside that immediate circle is in peril or dies, but we don't really relate on a personal level.

Agreed. Anarchy falls apart the second someone figures out that they can improve their survival chances by teaming up with another person for mutual benefit.

This realization takes all of half a second.

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08-04-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(07-04-2017 07:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 03:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Last I checked the government was made up of people. If people can't be trusted...

People can't be trusted to do the right things for the common good; that is why there are laws and government.

Has Robocop been implemented or do we still use people for this?
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08-04-2017, 04:09 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(08-04-2017 03:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 03:27 AM)abaris Wrote:  Show me one socal species that lives in a leaderless environment. That's not how we tick. You'd have to remove us from being a social species, but then it's every man for himself.

Anarchy can't work. We couldn't survive, since a leader or a group (democracy) is needed to make at least the basic decisions for us to survive in our environment.

Our societies are far from perfect and there's a lot of room for improvement. But the old social models all failed because of our basic nature of what we can and can't achieve on our own. And working towards a greater good of the group without there being an incentive isn't in our nature also.

And let's be honest with ourself here. Not even the culture or state we belong to serves as our group. It's our immediate circle of friends and family that does. The clan of a few dozen people at the most. We may feel some remote uneasyness if someone outside that immediate circle is in peril or dies, but we don't really relate on a personal level.

Agreed. Anarchy falls apart the second someone figures out that they can improve their survival chances by teaming up with another person for mutual benefit.

This realization takes all of half a second.

With a shift of consciousness the social contract could be to resist all types of heirarchy. Then we're free.
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08-04-2017, 04:11 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2017 04:14 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(08-04-2017 04:09 AM)ImFred Wrote:  With a shift of consciousness the social contract could be to resist all types of heirarchy. Then we're free.

Okay. Even assuming that wold fix things, how do you propose to do that to the entire population on the planet, without violating their mental sovereignty? Consider

I don't know how you get there without absolute global totalitarianism. A paradox, if you will.

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08-04-2017, 04:19 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Any social contract that relies upon 100% voluntary consent will always fail, because unless you can be held against your will, it's not much of a contract now is it?

Anarchy only works so long as everyone agrees to it. All you need is one person to object, and it quickly falls apart. Likewise the second one person puts their own self interest ahead of the group, perfect communism falls apart. Humans didn't evolve to be anarchists or communists, much like we didn't evolve to be mathematicians.

But we can learn enough, rise above our instincts, try to be better than we were evolved to be. It requires work, and plenty of checks and safeguards.


A city of perfect pacifists could be killed by one sufficiently determined psychopath with a knife. That's not an argument against peace however.

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08-04-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Every argument against anarchism that boils down to people being shitty can also be used to argue against government.
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08-04-2017, 05:56 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(08-04-2017 05:40 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Every argument against anarchism that boils down to people being shitty can also be used to argue against government.

Unless you enact a government to help keep shitty people in check. Drinking Beverage

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08-04-2017, 06:04 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Governments are made up of people Drinking Beverage
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08-04-2017, 06:10 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(08-04-2017 06:04 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Governments are made up of people Drinking Beverage

Really!?

What is this, Civics 101? Gasp

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