Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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18-03-2017, 06:42 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(24-01-2017 03:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-01-2017 10:14 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Most of the time, revolutions are much more bloody and dirty than most revolutionnary leaders imagine.

Because not all of the keys needed to get into power are the same ones you need to keep power.



The vid there is essentially a reiteration of Etienne de la Boetie's, "Discourse on Voluntary Servitude".(16th Century)

Also, the Communist idea of "rule of the proletariat" is to be contrasted by autocratic rule in that it is "rule" by an entire class of people, not just one person or oligarchy.
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18-03-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 04:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Socialism/Communism is a science based on Marx's/Engel's theory of "Historical Materialism" which essentially means that we live in a material world, humans are material beings that need material resources for survival and reproduction of the species and therefore engage in various means of production upon said resources and enter into arbitrary material relations thereof--and human history proceeds on this basis.

Actually "science" is too strong and misleading a word. Socialism and Communism are political philosophies which are often considered highly idealistic in their estimations of human psychology and motivations -- i.e., inaccurate, and therefore prone to failures of various sorts.

Undecided
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18-03-2017, 07:21 AM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2017 08:04 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 06:55 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 04:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Socialism/Communism is a science based on Marx's/Engel's theory of "Historical Materialism" which essentially means that we live in a material world, humans are material beings that need material resources for survival and reproduction of the species and therefore engage in various means of production upon said resources and enter into arbitrary material relations thereof--and human history proceeds on this basis.

Actually "science" is too strong and misleading a word. Socialism and Communism are political philosophies which are often considered highly idealistic in their estimations of human psychology and motivations -- i.e., inaccurate, and therefore prone to failures of various sorts.

Undecided
Quote:Scientific socialism is the term first used by Friedrich Engels to describe the social-political-economic theory first pioneered by Karl Marx.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_socialism






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19-03-2017, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 04:31 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  You are speaking figuratively, not literally, using metaphor rather than fact.

Sure. When you don't like something it is metaphor?

Quote:Marxism is not a religion. It is a science based on the theory of "Historical Materialism". It focuses on the control of resources and means of production in human society. It does not offer any belief in a God(s), which is central to religion.

Repeating something won't make it true, same with bolding certain words. And I see no reason to accept your statement just because.

Maybe check Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals or Rafał Imos Faith of the Soviet Man. The Soviet's Institutionalized Myth who claimed that marxism-leninism was gnostic, dualistic and universalistic state religion with prophet and saints.

Quote:Marx was a materialist and atheist. He scientifically analysed the material, socioeconomic relations of Man and, particularly, the capitalist system. The fact that he or Lenin or Mao or Che' or Castro, etc, were/are "worshiped" is just an evolutionary/cultural vestige of mass human behavior due to 1000s of years of being ruled by individuals or offered up individuals, say the Pope, to worship. But those particular individuals--Marx, etc-- did not take a stance of desiring to be worshiped. The proletariat are not "chosen", they are necessarily engaged in the class struggle from the day they are born into the system. The communist society is NOT portrayed by Marx or Engels as a "Utopian Paradise" but as the logical evolved result of persistent, intentional class struggle by the proletariat to overthrow the bourgeoisie and eradicate capitalism altogether.

Marxists loved to hear how scientific their ideology was, guess that was a fad then.

This quote may not truly fit here but why write something when someone already wrote it better:

The Marxist prophetism, as we have seen, conforms to the typical pattern of the Judeo-Christian prophetism. Every prophetism condemns what is and sketches an outline of what should or will be; it chooses an individual or a group to cleave a path across the no-man’s land which separates the unworthy present from the radiant future. The classless society which will bring social progress without political revolution is comparable to the dreams of the millennium. The misery of the proletariat proves its vocation and the Communist Party becomes the Church which is opposed by the bourgeois/pagans who stop their ears against the good tidings and by the socialist/Jews who have failed to recognise the Revolution which they themselves had been heralding for years. [Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals p. 267, of English 1962 edition]

Quote:I realize Chomsky, in one instance, declared Marxism to be a religion, but he is also wrong for the reasons I stated. He also calls himself an, "anarchosocialist", which essentially means he's a communist.

I don't care about Chomsky.

Quote:You can't have a religion w/o God.

And this is where you are wrong as marxism-leninism proved.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 04:33 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 04:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  You are speaking figuratively, not literally, using metaphor rather than fact.

Sure. When you don't like something it is metaphor?

Quote:Marxism is not a religion. It is a science based on the theory of "Historical Materialism". It focuses on the control of resources and means of production in human society. It does not offer any belief in a God(s), which is central to religion.

Repeating something won't make it true, same with bolding certain words. And I see no reason to accept your statement just because.

Maybe check Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals or Rafał Imos Faith of the Soviet Man. The Soviet's Institutionalized Myth who claimed that marxism-leninism was gnostic, dualistic and universalistic state religion with prophet and saints.

Quote:Marx was a materialist and atheist. He scientifically analysed the material, socioeconomic relations of Man and, particularly, the capitalist system. The fact that he or Lenin or Mao or Che' or Castro, etc, were/are "worshiped" is just an evolutionary/cultural vestige of mass human behavior due to 1000s of years of being ruled by individuals or offered up individuals, say the Pope, to worship. But those particular individuals--Marx, etc-- did not take a stance of desiring to be worshiped. The proletariat are not "chosen", they are necessarily engaged in the class struggle from the day they are born into the system. The communist society is NOT portrayed by Marx or Engels as a "Utopian Paradise" but as the logical evolved result of persistent, intentional class struggle by the proletariat to overthrow the bourgeoisie and eradicate capitalism altogether.

Marxists loved to hear how scientific their ideology was, guess that was a fad then.

This quote may not truly fit here but why write something when someone already wrote it better:

The Marxist prophetism, as we have seen, conforms to the typical pattern of the Judeo-Christian prophetism. Every prophetism condemns what is and sketches an outline of what should or will be; it chooses an individual or a group to cleave a path across the no-man’s land which separates the unworthy present from the radiant future. The classless society which will bring social progress without political revolution is comparable to the dreams of the millennium. The misery of the proletariat proves its vocation and the Communist Party becomes the Church which is opposed by the bourgeois/pagans who stop their ears against the good tidings and by the socialist/Jews who have failed to recognise the Revolution which they themselves had been heralding for years. [Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals p. 267, of English 1962 edition]

Quote:I realize Chomsky, in one instance, declared Marxism to be a religion, but he is also wrong for the reasons I stated. He also calls himself an, "anarchosocialist", which essentially means he's a communist.

I don't care about Chomsky.

Quote:You can't have a religion w/o God.

And this is where you are wrong as marxism-leninism proved.
Thats ok, I'll stick with Marx, Engels and Mao, etc, since they were the experts.
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19-03-2017, 04:35 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 04:33 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 04:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Sure. When you don't like something it is metaphor?


Repeating something won't make it true, same with bolding certain words. And I see no reason to accept your statement just because.

Maybe check Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals or Rafał Imos Faith of the Soviet Man. The Soviet's Institutionalized Myth who claimed that marxism-leninism was gnostic, dualistic and universalistic state religion with prophet and saints.


Marxists loved to hear how scientific their ideology was, guess that was a fad then.

This quote may not truly fit here but why write something when someone already wrote it better:

The Marxist prophetism, as we have seen, conforms to the typical pattern of the Judeo-Christian prophetism. Every prophetism condemns what is and sketches an outline of what should or will be; it chooses an individual or a group to cleave a path across the no-man’s land which separates the unworthy present from the radiant future. The classless society which will bring social progress without political revolution is comparable to the dreams of the millennium. The misery of the proletariat proves its vocation and the Communist Party becomes the Church which is opposed by the bourgeois/pagans who stop their ears against the good tidings and by the socialist/Jews who have failed to recognise the Revolution which they themselves had been heralding for years. [Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals p. 267, of English 1962 edition]


I don't care about Chomsky.


And this is where you are wrong as marxism-leninism proved.
Thats ok, I'll stick with Marx, Engels and Mao, etc, since they were the experts.

It seems facts are too much to handle.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 04:40 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 04:46 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 04:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  You are speaking figuratively, not literally, using metaphor rather than fact.

Sure. When you don't like something it is metaphor?

Quote:Marxism is not a religion. It is a science based on the theory of "Historical Materialism". It focuses on the control of resources and means of production in human society. It does not offer any belief in a God(s), which is central to religion.

Repeating something won't make it true, same with bolding certain words. And I see no reason to accept your statement just because.

Maybe check Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals or Rafał Imos Faith of the Soviet Man. The Soviet's Institutionalized Myth who claimed that marxism-leninism was gnostic, dualistic and universalistic state religion with prophet and saints.

Quote:Marx was a materialist and atheist. He scientifically analysed the material, socioeconomic relations of Man and, particularly, the capitalist system. The fact that he or Lenin or Mao or Che' or Castro, etc, were/are "worshiped" is just an evolutionary/cultural vestige of mass human behavior due to 1000s of years of being ruled by individuals or offered up individuals, say the Pope, to worship. But those particular individuals--Marx, etc-- did not take a stance of desiring to be worshiped. The proletariat are not "chosen", they are necessarily engaged in the class struggle from the day they are born into the system. The communist society is NOT portrayed by Marx or Engels as a "Utopian Paradise" but as the logical evolved result of persistent, intentional class struggle by the proletariat to overthrow the bourgeoisie and eradicate capitalism altogether.

Marxists loved to hear how scientific their ideology was, guess that was a fad then.

This quote may not truly fit here but why write something when someone already wrote it better:

The Marxist prophetism, as we have seen, conforms to the typical pattern of the Judeo-Christian prophetism. Every prophetism condemns what is and sketches an outline of what should or will be; it chooses an individual or a group to cleave a path across the no-man’s land which separates the unworthy present from the radiant future. The classless society which will bring social progress without political revolution is comparable to the dreams of the millennium. The misery of the proletariat proves its vocation and the Communist Party becomes the Church which is opposed by the bourgeois/pagans who stop their ears against the good tidings and by the socialist/Jews who have failed to recognise the Revolution which they themselves had been heralding for years. [Raymond Aron The Opium of the Intellectuals p. 267, of English 1962 edition]

Quote:I realize Chomsky, in one instance, declared Marxism to be a religion, but he is also wrong for the reasons I stated. He also calls himself an, "anarchosocialist", which essentially means he's a communist.

I don't care about Chomsky.

Quote:You can't have a religion w/o God.

And this is where you are wrong as marxism-leninism proved.
You were, in fact, speaking metaphorically. If you don't care about Chomsky. I don't care about Aron. And I'll stick with Marx, Engels, Mao, etc, since they were the experts in Marxist factual, empirical, historical materialist science.
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19-03-2017, 04:40 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 04:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Mao Zedong being one of my main "heroes" in this regard

I am sorry to say, but i fear that is all we need to know about your political and ideological position(s). Undecided

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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19-03-2017, 04:41 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 05:09 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
In capitalism, slavery is a necessary economic category, and that is also an empirically observable fact. And that is why there is still slavery within capitalist industrialism to this day("human trafficking", nicer name).

Quote: I mean direct slavery, the slavery of the Blacks in Surinam, in Brazil, in the southern regions of North America.
Direct slavery is as much the pivot upon which our present-day industrialism turns as are machinery, credit, etc. Without slavery there would be no cotton, without cotton there would be no modern industry. It is slavery which has given value to the [European] colonies, it is the colonies which have created world trade, and world trade is the necessary condition for large-scale machine industry.

Slavery is therefore an economic category of paramount importance. But to do away with slavery would be to wipe America off the map. All that modern nations have achieved is to disguise slavery at home and import it openly into the New World. Karl Marx https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

Coltan( columbite–tantalite), used in electronics, most is mined in DR Congo
[Image: cropped-3019307-poster-1280-conflict.jpg] Child slavery common: http://www.laborrights.org/in-the-news/p...ile-phones
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19-03-2017, 04:42 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 05:28 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
3rd World Congolese Slaves--->Coltan--->1st World wage workers--->capacitors--->electronics
[Image: Hot-Sale-Yellow-Radial-Tantalum-Capacitor.jpg][Image: Desire-vs-PC.png]
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