Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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19-03-2017, 04:44 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 04:40 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  You were, in fact, speaking metaphorically. I you don't care about Chomsky. I don't care about Aron. And I'll stick with Marx, Engels, Mao, etc, since they were the experts in Marxist empirical historical materialist science.

Metaphorically? You're theist or something? What you don't like is metaphor?

Something doesn't became science cause you write it with cursive. It's nice to read something so funny so early, though.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 05:10 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 04:40 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 04:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Mao Zedong being one of my main "heroes" in this regard

I am sorry to say, but i fear that is all we need to know about your political and ideological position(s). Undecided
I wouldn't be sorry about it.
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19-03-2017, 05:13 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 04:44 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 04:40 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  You were, in fact, speaking metaphorically. I you don't care about Chomsky. I don't care about Aron. And I'll stick with Marx, Engels, Mao, etc, since they were the experts in Marxist empirical historical materialist science.

Metaphorically? You're theist or something? What you don't like is metaphor?

Something doesn't became science cause you write it with cursive. It's nice to read something so funny so early, though.

Quote:Scientific socialism. Scientific socialism is the term first used by Friedrich Engels to describe the social-political-economic theory first pioneered by Karl Marx.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_socialism
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19-03-2017, 05:52 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 05:13 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 04:44 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Metaphorically? You're theist or something? What you don't like is metaphor?

Something doesn't became science cause you write it with cursive. It's nice to read something so funny so early, though.

Quote:Scientific socialism. Scientific socialism is the term first used by Friedrich Engels to describe the social-political-economic theory first pioneered by Karl Marx.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_socialism

Engels (who had a stake in whatever he concocted with Marx not being called religion) saying that something is scientific does not make it so. Read a book maybe. Or not. I gave you titles, now it's all up to you.

From the same link - see Karl Popper take describing it as pseudoscience.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 05:55 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 06:08 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 05:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 05:13 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_socialism

Engels (who had a stake in whatever he concocted with Marx not being called religion) saying that something is scientific does not make it so. Read a book maybe. Or not. I gave you titles, now it's all up to you.

From the same link - see Karl Popper take describing it as pseudoscience.
I stand by my assertion(s). Capitalism, for e.g., which is what Marx spent the majority of his time analysing, is an empirically observable socioeconomic phenomenon/process which can be tested and has reproducible results/outcomes. For e.g., class analysis:

[Image: 2940504.gif]
Weberian and Marxist approaches combined.
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19-03-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 05:55 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 05:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Engels (who had a stake in whatever he concocted with Marx not being called religion) saying that something is scientific does not make it so. Read a book maybe. Or not. I gave you titles, now it's all up to you.

From the same link - see Karl Popper take describing it as pseudoscience.
I stand by my assertion(s). Capitalism, for e.g., which is what Marx spent the majority of his time analysing, is an empirically observable socioeconomic phenomenon/process which can be tested and has reproducible results/outcomes.

Then stand by them. I said my piece and there is no reason to delve further.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 06:10 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:05 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 05:55 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I stand by my assertion(s). Capitalism, for e.g., which is what Marx spent the majority of his time analysing, is an empirically observable socioeconomic phenomenon/process which can be tested and has reproducible results/outcomes.

Then stand by them. I said my piece and there is no reason to delve further.
I'll take this as a forfeiture.
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19-03-2017, 06:10 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(21-01-2017 06:45 PM)momo666 Wrote:  Were they the result of anti-religious sentiment ? I have heard this claim recently and I want to know what is your take on it.

What about the two world wars ? Wasn't the killer who "started" the first world war an atheist ?

I think Anarchy has so far only been the result of governments collapsing or countries who haven't formed a government in the first place.

I can't think of an example of a country that has chosen anarchy for any reasons of any sentiment.

Communism as a political ideology seems to be against religion, but I personally doubt that the whole ideology of communism stems from anti religious sentiment.

And nationalism is similar but the opposite, and by that I mean I doubt that nationalism started from any particular sentiment towards religion but as a political ideology there seems to be links with being FOR religion rather than against it.
For example Pakistani nationalism has links with Islam.
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19-03-2017, 06:18 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:05 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Then stand by them. I said my piece and there is no reason to delve further.
I'll take this as a forfeiture.

Take it whatever you want, I see no reason for wasting time in discussion with people who already know The Truth.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 07:38 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)PaulPablo Wrote:  
(21-01-2017 06:45 PM)momo666 Wrote:  Were they the result of anti-religious sentiment ? I have heard this claim recently and I want to know what is your take on it.

What about the two world wars ? Wasn't the killer who "started" the first world war an atheist ?

I think Anarchy has so far only been the result of governments collapsing or countries who haven't formed a government in the first place.

I can't think of an example of a country that has chosen anarchy for any reasons of any sentiment.

Communism as a political ideology seems to be against religion, but I personally doubt that the whole ideology of communism stems from anti religious sentiment.

And nationalism is similar but the opposite, and by that I mean I doubt that nationalism started from any particular sentiment towards religion but as a political ideology there seems to be links with being FOR religion rather than against it.
For example Pakistani nationalism has links with Islam.
An-archism, by definition, dismisses and is generally antagonistic toward religion/God since the latter contains hierarchy. And, as a poster so eloquently replied above, Marxism is not so much anti-religion as it is anti clerical, as the clergy form an oppressive bourgeois class. And yes, nationalistic/patriotic movements often use religion to bolster and unify their cause.
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