Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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19-03-2017, 06:27 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 06:32 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:18 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I'll take this as a forfeiture.

Take it whatever you want, I see no reason for wasting time in discussion with people who already know The Truth.
Well, if I am not mistaken, the thrust of your argument included something to this effect, "I have read many many books on history, therefore I know"(the truth, or the truth about history and/or Marxism). That, my friend, is a non-sequitur. And I suspect you haven't actually read Engels/Marx themselves.
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19-03-2017, 06:29 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 05:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 04:40 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I am sorry to say, but i fear that is all we need to know about your political and ideological position(s). Undecided
I wouldn't be sorry about it.

Forgive me, but i am indeed sorry for you, describing one of the probably worst human beings in history to be your *hero*.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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19-03-2017, 06:31 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:27 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:18 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Take it whatever you want, I see no reason for wasting time in discussion with people who already know The Truth.
Well, if I am not mistaken, part of your argument included something to this effect, "I have read many many books on history, therefore I know"(the truth about history). That, my friend, is a non-sequitur.

You're mistaken. I find arguments presented in mentioned books to be convincing. It's true that I care not for Chomsky but I had enough reasons to call marxism-leninism a religion without his support. You on the other hand just don't care about books that conflicts with your view and spout nonsense about me speaking metaphorically. There is also your weird manner of bolding words as if it would make them true - coupled with your admiration for Mao it seems trollish to be honest.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:29 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 05:10 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I wouldn't be sorry about it.

Forgive me, but i am indeed sorry for you, describing one of the probably worst human beings in history to be your *hero*.
I firmly disagree as to your assessment, but I move to leave it at that.
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19-03-2017, 06:34 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:21 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:10 AM)PaulPablo Wrote:  I think Anarchy has so far only been the result of governments collapsing or countries who haven't formed a government in the first place.

I can't think of an example of a country that has chosen anarchy for any reasons of any sentiment.

Communism as a political ideology seems to be against religion, but I personally doubt that the whole ideology of communism stems from anti religious sentiment.

And nationalism is similar but the opposite, and by that I mean I doubt that nationalism started from any particular sentiment towards religion but as a political ideology there seems to be links with being FOR religion rather than against it.
For example Pakistani nationalism has links with Islam.
An-archism, by definition, rules out and is generally antagonistic toward religion/God since the latter contains hierarchy. And, as a poster so eloquently replied above, Marxism is not so much anti-religion as it is anti clerical, as the clergy form an oppressive bourgeois class. And yes, nationalistic/patriotic movements often use religion to bolster and unify their cause.

But anarchy is also just a condition of a country with a lack of government order.

So for example Somalia under anarchy didn't all of a sudden become antagonistic towards religion.

Also religion was viewed as nothing but a tool for the oppressive clergy class so they're very much linked in that way from the perspective of marxism.
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19-03-2017, 06:36 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:27 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Well, if I am not mistaken, part of your argument included something to this effect, "I have read many many books on history, therefore I know"(the truth about history). That, my friend, is a non-sequitur.

You're mistaken. I find arguments presented in mentioned books to be convincing. It's true that I care not for Chomsky but I had enough reasons to call marxism-leninism a religion without his support. You on the other hand just don't care about books that conflicts with your view and spout nonsense about me speaking metaphorically. There is also your weird manner of bolding words as if it would make them true - coupled with your admiration for Mao it seems trollish to be honest.
The reason I don't care much for opposing arguments re Marx(ism) is that they are usually uninformed and wrong. You were speaking metaphorically, that is a fact. My assessment re Mao, whose movement was based on Marxism/Lenisim and achieved a great deal in that regard, is informed and firm.
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19-03-2017, 06:41 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 06:55 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:36 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  You're mistaken. I find arguments presented in mentioned books to be convincing. It's true that I care not for Chomsky but I had enough reasons to call marxism-leninism a religion without his support. You on the other hand just don't care about books that conflicts with your view and spout nonsense about me speaking metaphorically. There is also your weird manner of bolding words as if it would make them true - coupled with your admiration for Mao it seems trollish to be honest.
The reason I don't care much for opposing arguments re Marx(ism) as that they are usually uninformed and wrong.

You don't agree with them so they must be.

Quote:You were speaking metaphorically, that is a fact.

You're troll. That's a fact.

Quote:My assessment re Mao, whose movement was based on Marxism/Lenisim and achieved a great deal in that regard, is informed and firm.

Only difference between you and run of the mill theist is object of your faith it seems.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 07:32 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:34 AM)PaulPablo Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:21 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  An-archism, by definition, rules out and is generally antagonistic toward religion/God since the latter contains hierarchy. And, as a poster so eloquently replied above, Marxism is not so much anti-religion as it is anti clerical, as the clergy form an oppressive bourgeois class. And yes, nationalistic/patriotic movements often use religion to bolster and unify their cause.

But anarchy is also just a condition of a country with a lack of government order.

So for example Somalia under anarchy didn't all of a sudden become antagonistic towards religion.

Also religion was viewed as nothing but a tool for the oppressive clergy class so they're very much linked in that way from the perspective of marxism.
No, anarchy, the word, means "an"(without), "archy"(authoritative rule), whether that "archy" be the religious, governmental, or economic, or ideological in any way. The supernatural God is a ruler. The various clergy are a section of the ruling class, and religion is the propaganda of the clergy that helps them rule. So, "anarchism", by logical extension, is antagonistic to God/clergy/religion. Anarchism, as a political, socioeconomic philosophy, means "order(the circle around the 'A') through anarchism, or social equality, sans hierarchical rule.
[Image: anarchy-symbol.png]

And, you are correct re Marxist class analysis of religion. That is why, in a Marxist influenced revolution, the various clergy are often not treated "so well"--if they can be found, that is.
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19-03-2017, 06:58 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:41 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:36 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  The reason I don't care much for opposing arguments re Marx(ism) as that they are usually uninformed and wrong.

You don't agree with them so they must be.

Quote:You were speaking metaphorically, that is a fact.

You're troll. That's a fact.

Quote:My assessment re Mao, whose movement was based on Marxism/Lenisim and achieved a great deal in that regard, is informed and firm.

Only difference between you and run of the mill theist is object of your faith it seems.
I am not a theist, and I don't ascribe to faith. YOU said that.
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19-03-2017, 07:06 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 06:58 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:41 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  You don't agree with them so they must be.


You're troll. That's a fact.


Only difference between you and run of the mill theist is object of your faith it seems.
I am not a theist, and I don't ascribe to faith. YOU said that.

Given what you wrote your saying that you don't ascribe to faith rings hollow, troll.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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