Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
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19-03-2017, 07:08 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 06:58 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I am not a theist, and I don't ascribe to faith. YOU said that.

Given what you wrote your saying that you don't ascribe to faith rings hollow, troll.
Now you're reducing yourself to ad hominem, and we all know what that means.
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19-03-2017, 07:16 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:08 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 07:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Given what you wrote your saying that you don't ascribe to faith rings hollow, troll.
Now you're reducing yourself to ad hominem, and we all know what that means.

Trolls deserve no respect. Neither do admirers of genocidal tyrants if you're honest about Mao.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 07:17 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 07:36 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Look, Marxist socialism/communism, based on the science of historical materialism and class analysis is antithetic to capitalism and class structures and seeks to replace them with socialism/communism. That is the bottom line.

Therefore, capitalist States, like the USA, have heavy, systematic anti Marxist/socialist/communist/anarchist propaganda, in order to protect the capitalist State. Similarly, Marxist socialist/communist States, like the USSR or Maoist China, or Castro's Cuba or the DPRK, have anti capitalist/class propaganda in order to protect their political socioeconomic order.

That is just the way the game, by necessity, is played.
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19-03-2017, 07:43 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  ...
You can't have a religion w/o God.

Unless you want tax-exempt status. See Buddhism in the USA.

(19-03-2017 05:55 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 05:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  ...
saying that something is scientific does not make it so.
...
I stand by my assertion(s). Capitalism, for e.g., which is what Marx spent the majority of his time analysing, is an empirically observable socioeconomic phenomenon/process which can be tested and has reproducible results/outcomes. For e.g., class analysis:

[Image: 2940504.gif]
Weberian and Marxist approaches combined.

Just because a subject can be studied scientifically, it does not make the subject itself a science.

Flow diagrams tend to be a hallmark of engineering. Soft science at best.

(19-03-2017 07:16 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  ...
Trolls deserve no respect. Neither do admirers of genocidal tyrants if you're honest about Mao.

On a personal note, of the many PRCs whose paths crossed with mine in Singapore, many where completely unaware of Mao's purges aka nation building.

I can't say I respected them for their groomed ignorance but it was not entirely their fault ... in most cases they were cute and curvy and that's worthy of respect.

Wink

(19-03-2017 07:17 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Look, Marxist socialism/communism, based on the science of historical materialism and class analysis is antithetic to capitalism and class structures and seeks to replace them with socialism/communism. This is the bottom line.
...
That is just the way the game, by necessity, is played.

And games require rules and hierarchies... or they are unplayable.

Anarchy attempts to remove The Leviathan. This can only work in societies with multilateral social contracts.

i.e. Level Six:
[Image: Kohlberg_moral_stages_vop.gif]

Good luck with that in world of barbarians and Pareto efficiencies that evolved dominance hierarchies before it evolved trees.

Thumbsup

And I say this with love, as a Marxist-Lennonist.

Big Grin

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19-03-2017, 07:45 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
Negative Rating Fred H just because he has different politics is lame.
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19-03-2017, 07:53 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 08:29 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  ...
You can't have a religion w/o God.

Unless you want tax-exempt status. See Buddhism in the USA.

Hell the US Government even considers atheism a religion deserving of tax exempt status. Whether they like it or not. I think Cantor's Church of the Holey Meteorite from the Third Planet from The Gwynnite has a real chance of success, at least with the IRS. He has people who can testify to his sincerity if need be.

(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 05:55 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I stand by my assertion(s). Capitalism, for e.g., which is what Marx spent the majority of his time analysing, is an empirically observable socioeconomic phenomenon/process which can be tested and has reproducible results/outcomes.

Just because a subject can be studies scientifically, it does not make the subject itself a science.

cf. Scatology.

(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  On a personal note, of the many PRCs whose paths crossed with mine in Singapore, many where completely unaware of Mao's purges aka nation building.

I can't say I respected them for their groomed ignorance but it was not entirely their fault ... in most cases they were cute and curvy and that's worthy of respect.

The ones I met were 4'10" 88 lb 17 yo Chinese girls in our top Computer Science graduate schools. They looked away and covered their mouths and giggled when I couldn't understand their math. And in short, I was afraid.

(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  And games require rules and hierarchies... or they are unplayable.

Anarchy attempts to remove The Leviathan. This can only work in societies with multilateral social contracts.

i.e. Level Six:

Good luck with that in world of barbarians and Pareto efficiencies that evolved dominance hierarchies before it evolved trees.

More people need to read Kohlberg. Have you pointed him out to Tommy boy yet?

I did some basic research in multi-objective optimization and Pareto fronts and Skyline queries. Fascinating stuff. That's all I remember, it was fascinating stuff. Jeez, that must've been 2-3 years ago by now.

(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  And I say this with love, as a Marxist-Lennonist.

But theBorg told me Marx and Lenin were False Atheist. He says we should not be False Atheist, we should be True Atheist, like Jesus.

#sigh
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19-03-2017, 08:21 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 08:35 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 06:09 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  ...
You can't have a religion w/o God.

Unless you want tax-exempt status. See Buddhism in the USA.

(19-03-2017 05:55 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I stand by my assertion(s). Capitalism, for e.g., which is what Marx spent the majority of his time analysing, is an empirically observable socioeconomic phenomenon/process which can be tested and has reproducible results/outcomes. For e.g., class analysis:

[Image: 2940504.gif]
Weberian and Marxist approaches combined.

Just because a subject can be studies scientifically, it does not make the subject itself a science.

Flow diagrams tend to be a hallmark of engineering. Soft science at best.

(19-03-2017 07:16 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  ...
Trolls deserve no respect. Neither do admirers of genocidal tyrants if you're honest about Mao.

On a personal note, of the many PRCs whose paths crossed with mine in Singapore, many where completely unaware of Mao's purges aka nation building.

I can't say I respected them for their groomed ignorance but it was not entirely their fault ... in most cases they were cute and curvy and that's worthy of respect.

Wink

(19-03-2017 07:17 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Look, Marxist socialism/communism, based on the science of historical materialism and class analysis is antithetic to capitalism and class structures and seeks to replace them with socialism/communism. This is the bottom line.
...
That is just the way the game, by necessity, is played.

And games require rules and hierarchies... or they are unplayable.

Anarchy attempts to remove The Leviathan. This can only work in societies with multilateral social contracts.

i.e. Level Six:
[Image: Kohlberg_moral_stages_vop.gif]

Good luck with that in world of barbarians and Pareto efficiencies that evolved dominance hierarchies before it evolved trees.

Thumbsup

And I say this with love, as a Marxist-Leninist.

Big Grin
Fixed. Well, in the U(F)SA, Buddhism would be considered a religion and "The Man" is so unknowledgeable re the subject that "He" assumes they have a "God", like the Judeo-Christian or Muslim God. But I think it just has to be considered a religion, whether they are worshipping gods or rocks.

Games don't necessarily require hierarchies. I can play badminton and just enjoy it as an equal. I don't have to "defeat" and "dominate" someone.

So you ascribe to Marx/Lenin? If so, BELEZA Companheiro! As to anarchism, there apparently a few "card carrying" anarchists here that I'm sure could chime in and contribute more to that subject than I. I am familiar with Emma Goldman and that American gang--even though she came, like so many, from Lithuania(read Upton Sinclair's, "The Jungle"). She was a prolific writer on the subject and became famous and toured the country "bigly", but in the end, accomplished very little and was exiled. Her "main squeeze" attempted to assassinate Carnegie's henchman, Frick, but with his little pee shooter pistol that he and Emma had bought with their last dollar, he was such a hack shooter that he failed to kill him at point blank range--and proceeded to be hung for the crime, if I recall.

I like the work of Kropotkin, what I can remember anyway, and Bakunin was more of a doer than a writer and didn't have much in the way of organized theoretical discourse. He just liked to get his hands dirty in live anarcho revolutionary causes. Kind of Mensch. Proudhon is pretty heady stuff.

The main beef re anarchists is that they usually don't have the numbers or organization to overthrow the power structures that they seek to. The Spanish Rev, 1936, is probably the best example and attempt at anarchism as as social experiment, and I applaud it. They started some great schools for their kids and got their egalitarian economy going pretty well. All brought down by the Franco fascists, of course.'

Human beings, like all animals, are social, for their material survival as a species.
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19-03-2017, 08:38 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 08:43 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Negative Rating Fred H just because he has different politics is lame.
and common... Yes Thanks for having my back Fred, and protecting free speech. In the U(F)SA we have absolute freedom.....to not be a socialist, communist, or anarchist and there are many dead and incarcerated bodies to prove it--namely, Fred Hampton.
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19-03-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:45 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Negative Rating Fred H just because he has different politics is lame.

Rating him positive despite Mao being his hero is despicable. Drinking Beverage

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2017, 08:43 AM
RE: Anarchy, Communism and Nationalism
(19-03-2017 07:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  On a personal note, of the many PRCs whose paths crossed with mine in Singapore, many where completely unaware of Mao's purges aka nation building.

I can't say I respected them for their groomed ignorance but it was not entirely their fault ... in most cases they were cute and curvy and that's worthy of respect.

Wink

Ignorance perhaps can be used as excuse but that's not the case here.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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