Anarchy
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04-01-2012, 04:13 PM
RE: Anarchy
kineo:
Did you take into consideration that we learnt a lot more by now? Because I am pretty sure that a certain standard on all these topics would still be there.
Like if I have a restaurant and I start serving food on dirty plates or my salad smells funny, I will loose paying/trading customers.
But I aggree on the child labor thing. Sureley we would get that back in the case. At least in regions with low education.

I think a lot of work would be done in a completely different way. At least when selfemployed or for example as teacher or doctor. You would give service for cash/useful stuff. "Bring me 1kilo bread / 1 Euro and I teach you the ABC" kinda like that

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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04-01-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: Anarchy
Hell on earth, thats the best way I know to describe it. Horrors that you have never even dreamed of yet. That is most likely what we would begin descending into gradually. Each generation would probably descend farther into decay.

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04-01-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: Anarchy
That's true, we are a lot more knowledgeable today. That wouldn't necessarily be true of the future, and it isn't a guarantee that it will be. If we begin by removing laws and oversight, especially where education is concerned, then we remove the pillars that uphold the standard of knowledge we have today. This is already an issue today, actually as our education in this country slips and becomes more and more commercialized (other may argue it's a good thing for education to be privatized, but I would disagree and that would be a whole other conversation). What I'm getting at is that we can take for granted that we all "know better" when it comes to human rights and protections. But that knowledge is rooted in our education. If anything were to happen to that education, so that it devolved in some ways, there is no guarantee that the lessons we've learned about rights of all humans would be maintained in teaching and passed on. And that's true regardless of anarchy or not. The standard you mentioned exists only so long as we uphold that standard and pass it along to the next generation and the following generations do the same. An organized form of government is a way to make sure that happens.

In regards to the consumer protection angle, you have to be aware that there's a problem in order for you to boycott. If you don't know that a restaurant is using dirty dishes then you don't know to boycott it and you may continue to go there to your own detriment, until you get sick. If all they do is wipe the dishes off and rinse them, how are you to know that they haven't been washed with soap at a sterile temperature? If there is no agency in place to inspect that restaurant then you may never know that this is their standard practice if you don't get immediately ill after a visit. If you never go back into the kitchen, then you may never know that it's a roach infested disgusting mess that hasn't been cleaned in a decade. This is why we have health inspectors. That's just in response to the example that you gave about the restaurant.

On another note, I believe that some form of government would still arise and a true anarchy would exist for only a very brief time. Like you and others have mentioned, someone would become a dictator of whatever region they could control, or some group would lead their community and gain in power, etc. These forms of organization would be a government of sorts and anarchy would fail.

That is all dependent upon the assumption that we are as we are now, and that the human race has not somehow become perfect in all of the virtues, such as charity, love, compassion, etc.
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04-01-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: Anarchy
(04-01-2012 03:40 PM)Leela Wrote:  hoc:
Got your point. But I am not saying that people in general are evil. You can't tell me that those people who always want to rule others and own everything would disappear the moment we'd have anarchy. And that's the point I was making.

I dig. And somebody else bringing anarchy to the table; milk and honey. Why I say, technocratic anarchy. That's the global structure, the root; a tree branching into communities of all sizes, a virtual, fractal representation. You wanna be Czar of Indiana? Doable. People's Republic of North Dakota? Done deal? The Confederacy? Absolutely.

Because we are all moral - but what is absolute is the morality of the individual. The moral individuals will form the nodes, the kernel of society. World admin runs an AI, assigning contracts based on merit. Everything based on economics - hear a plan to use joules, sounds good to me; but something real - and a currency that is the medium of exchange, not an exploitable resource.

I didn't plan on having some sweeping vision, I was trying to justify calling myself a conservative republican; and it just failed. A party is party agenda, that agenda is spun up by who is ever running ahead - anarchy I researched.

Mofo, I got superpowers! I don't take advantage of nobody, why not? Cause that ain't love. Fuck yeah, love and morality are related. Take advantage of people, like protect your identity? Like that guy, calling me a stalker; been demon integral alla day? Go and kill? Is it moral?

Absolutely. Protect the identity. Like if a burglar comes into your house, your three year old son is vulnerable, you got the 44 Ruger? Gonna ask questions? Give the creep time to use your son as a shield? Or, blammo! Protect the identity.

It's not I'm wrong in the first case, you're right in the second; life began 1.8 billion years ago with multicellular organisms, there is no individual value for life unless you value it. Period.

It has always been the strong and the moral. Here I sit, a boy called ellen, a key to the matriarchy. It is manly to fight for valor, for honor, for king and country. It is feminine to fight not at all, but to kill for love, unquestionably. Wink

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04-01-2012, 05:31 PM
RE: Anarchy
Not that The God Delusion is Holy Writ, but Dawkins gives a good example of how anarchy doesn't SEEM to work in real life. (The example shortened, but you can read it yourself if you have the book).

As part of his excellent discussion on whether religion makes us good or not, Dawkins quotes [p. 228] "Steven Pinker's disillusioning experience of a police strike in Montreal":

"As a young teenager in proudly peaceable Canada during the romantic 1960s, I was a true believer in Bakunin's anarchism. I laughed off my parents' arguments that if government ever laid down its arms all hell would break loose. Our competing predictoions were put to the test . . . when the Montreal police went on strike . . . city authorities had to call in the army and, of course, the Mounties to restore order. This decisive empirical test left my politics in tatters. . . "


Just sayin'...

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-01-2012, 05:43 PM
RE: Anarchy
I dont think it would descend into madness. We have laws that punish people for murdering, raping, extortian etc etc but these things still happen nevertheless. I dont think people would split off into there own communities unless we had our technology removed from us.........if the goverment ceased to exist tommorow then that wouldnt mean I loose all my contacts and all the people I know around the country.

The goverment doesnt run the country.......it just regulates it and collects your taxs to pay off the interest of lending from the banks.

On the plus side no goverments=no overseas wars.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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04-01-2012, 05:45 PM
RE: Anarchy
Can't have a valid discussion on Anarchy without the Sex Pistols:





It starts in the UK, Leela, so we're all counting on you!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-01-2012, 10:58 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2012 11:02 PM by Infidel.)
RE: Anarchy
delete

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04-01-2012, 11:30 PM
RE: Anarchy
I used to play D&D, it was always Lawful. I thought anarchy was without merit up until two years ago. Then I read a pile of various stuff. It scares many, others call it ridiculous.

But people need their labels, and they'll ask me democrat or republican. Anarchist. I know what I'm talking about. I just don't know wtf I'm getting into, claiming to be anything else.

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05-01-2012, 08:43 AM
RE: Anarchy
Living in a world without any need for prisons, courts and militaries is a beautiful dream, one which I share. We seem so far away from the time in history when that could actually occur. There are still to many things that divide us. There are to many extremists who cannot see the dream. I think we would need to be united together as one. I am beginning to feel a familiar friend's presence more an more daily since I joined this forum and began these serious discussions. So far I have quit smoking and began to eat and sleep better. I also feel years younger. I feel a presence of energy, I feel peace. Not sure what is up with it. This has been called god. This is our only hope though, of that I am positive. Many of you will be feeling this peace, you will have dreams. Headaches and other things will be cured, your attitude about life will change. You may experience things which seem to be magic.

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