Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-07-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(27-07-2017 11:38 AM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  ...And they're the Lebanese People

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/anci...nites-fate

This blows a huge hole in the Bible

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...62936.html

I'm not following what "hole" this news blows in the bible. There were Canaanites then, and their ancestors apparently didn't go very far and are modern day Lebanese people. So what? IIRC, the Lebanese people also have a tradition that they were the Phoenicians.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-07-2017, 03:29 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 03:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(27-07-2017 11:38 AM)OmniConsUme Wrote:  ...And they're the Lebanese People

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/anci...nites-fate

This blows a huge hole in the Bible

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...62936.html

I'm not following what "hole" this news blows in the bible. There were Canaanites then, and their ancestors apparently didn't go very far and are modern day Lebanese people. So what? IIRC, the Lebanese people also have a tradition that they were the Phoenicians.

According to the bible, the Canaanites were completely wiped out. All killed off. This proves they were not.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JDog554's post
28-07-2017, 03:43 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 03:29 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(28-07-2017 03:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm not following what "hole" this news blows in the bible. There were Canaanites then, and their ancestors apparently didn't go very far and are modern day Lebanese people. So what? IIRC, the Lebanese people also have a tradition that they were the Phoenicians.

According to the bible, the Canaanites were completely wiped out. All killed off. This proves they were not.

Alright homework time. I have far from memorized precisely what the bible says, but I was never taught that the Jews were successful in their campaign against the Canaanites. According to the Jerusalem Talmud, the Jews wanted to take the land and found the Canaanites behavior to be incredibly boorish (much as we may see Nazi or Isis behavior today. Those ways of thinking must be stopped). They sent out three letters to the individual tribes in Canaan asking them to change their ways and accept the Hebrews as their new governing power. One tribe agreed, and was spared. The others were marked for destruction but were never fully killed off.

So it makes sense to me that their DNA would have survived because our books say they survived. I'll have to find the story in the Tanakh to see exactly what it says, but the Jewish understanding is very clear. Some Canaanites survived.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Aliza's post
28-07-2017, 04:08 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 03:43 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(28-07-2017 03:29 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  According to the bible, the Canaanites were completely wiped out. All killed off. This proves they were not.

Alright homework time. I have far from memorized precisely what the bible says, but I was never taught that the Jews were successful in their campaign against the Canaanites. According to the Jerusalem Talmud, the Jews wanted to take the land and found the Canaanites behavior to be incredibly boorish (much as we may see Nazi or Isis behavior today. Those ways of thinking must be stopped). They sent out three letters to the individual tribes in Canaan asking them to change their ways and accept the Hebrews as their new governing power. One tribe agreed, and was spared. The others were marked for destruction but were never fully killed off.

So it makes sense to me that their DNA would have survived because our books say they survived. I'll have to find the story in the Tanakh to see exactly what it says, but the Jewish understanding is very clear. Some Canaanites survived.

This is what is being referred to,

Deuteronomy 15-17.

"Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations nearby. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you"

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JDog554's post
28-07-2017, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2017 04:19 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 03:29 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  According to the bible, the Canaanites were completely wiped out. All killed off. This proves they were not.

Are you sure the Bible refers to the Canaanites as individual people being all killed or the Canaanites as an independant nation/tribe/civilisation being destroyed? If it's the first, than yes, a hole has been found in the Bible. If it's the second, no, this discovery doesn't mean anything in terms of disproving an element of the Bible. While the discovery is interesting in terms of genetic maping of hte human race, the title of these articles seems extremely ''atheist pandering'', a bit too much for it not to raise an alarm. It seems like ''clic baiting'' for atheists more than ground breaking discovery on biblical history or genetic.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like epronovost's post
28-07-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 04:08 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  "Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations nearby. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you"

That's not a telling of what happenned. It's a declaration of intent. ''You shall do'' implies things that you haven't done yet, but want to do. This passage doesn't say ''the Tribes of Israel destroyed everybody in the region''. It says that the Hebrew went to war with the intent of killing everybody (and with God full support). It doesn't say if they won as completly as God envisonned it. Isn't shortly after that it tells that Hittites defeated the Hebrew because they had Iron Chariots? In other words in this passage God wanted the Hebrew to exterminate completly all those people, it doesn't mean that they succeeded at all.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-07-2017, 04:20 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 04:13 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(28-07-2017 03:29 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  According to the bible, the Canaanites were completely wiped out. All killed off. This proves they were not.

Are you sure the Bible refers to the Canaanites as individual people being all killed or the Canaanites as an independant nation/tribe/civilisation being destroyed? If it's the first, than yes, a hole has been found in the Bible. If it's the second, no, this discovery doesn't mean anything in terms of disproving an element of the Bible. While the discovery is interesting in terms of genetic maping of hte human race, the title of these articles seems extremely ''atheist pandering'', a bit too much for it not to raise an alarm. Seems like clic baiting for atheists more than ground braking discovery on biblical history or genetic.

Just saying it as I understand it. I am in no way an expert so. You are more than welcome to take my words with a grain of salt. I certainly won't be offended if you do.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-07-2017, 09:57 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
(28-07-2017 04:20 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(28-07-2017 04:13 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Are you sure the Bible refers to the Canaanites as individual people being all killed or the Canaanites as an independant nation/tribe/civilisation being destroyed? If it's the first, than yes, a hole has been found in the Bible. If it's the second, no, this discovery doesn't mean anything in terms of disproving an element of the Bible. While the discovery is interesting in terms of genetic maping of hte human race, the title of these articles seems extremely ''atheist pandering'', a bit too much for it not to raise an alarm. Seems like clic baiting for atheists more than ground braking discovery on biblical history or genetic.

Just saying it as I understand it. I am in no way an expert so. You are more than welcome to take my words with a grain of salt. I certainly won't be offended if you do.

What epronovost said. It's a declaration of intent, but not a confirmation of action carried out.

I'm away from home so I can't reference my notes or anything, but I did a quick and dirty search, and it reads in Judges 1 that the war with the Canaanites was ongoing well after Joshua died. Either the Canaanites were killed, driven out, or were sent to labor. I even checked it on a Christian source and the book seems to convey the same message. I'm not sure what group of people holds that Israel destroyed the Canaanites, but it doesn't seem to be a Christian or a Jewish belief.

It's interesting that the Lebanese people have Canannite DNA, but I don't see it as the death blow to religion at all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-07-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
Then at best it shows a very inconsistent god. In other stories, i.e. Saul, the commandment is to kill everything and when Saul didn't, god gotta hella pissed. This was a commandment of god that wasn't fully carried out and now god seems to be like "Ehhh close enough".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2017, 11:16 PM
RE: Ancient DNA reveals Canaanites survived...
Not only did we survive, we invented the phoenetic alphabet and money.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like psybj's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: