Ancient Greek text laying foundations for Calculus -- Erased to make prayer book
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04-01-2014, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 12:11 PM by Chas.)
RE: Ancient Greek text laying foundations for Calculus -- Erased to make prayer book
(04-01-2014 11:49 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 10:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  My response was those words and the quote that supported them.
By not responding to the quote and simply asserting that I said nothing more than "nu-uh" is dishonest. You really are a dickhead for doing that.

I don't recall seeing that quote in the original post, but if it was there, I apologize for missing it. I'm happy to respond. Here's the quote:

Quote:The relationship between religion and science has been a subject of study since Classical antiquity, addressed by philosophers, theologians, scientists, and others. Perspectives from different geographical regions, cultures and historical epochs are diverse, with some characterizing the relationship as one of conflict, others describing it as one of harmony, and others proposing little interaction. The extent to which science and religion may attempt to understand and describe similar phenomena is sometimes referred to as a part of the demarcation problem.

First, quoting Wikipedia is hardly laudable or authoritative, particularly in such controversial areas like the relationship of science and religion, which tend to be lorded over by dogmatic hobbyists. Nevertheless, the article (and particularly your quote) doesn't so much address ways that science can be conceptualized as a religion, but rather presupposes the distinction of the two categories and just discusses how they interact in their various instantiations. In other words, appealing to this article in support of the thesis that science can never be a religion is begging the question. It presupposes the very premise you are seeking to prove.

Try again.

I am merely pointing out that your thesis is a minority one. I am not appealing to authority, and your pompous 'laudable' is not constructive.
Conflating science and religion does little to aid our understanding of either.

If you want to propose that scientism is like a religion, I believe you have a stronger thesis.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-01-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: Ancient Greek text laying foundations for Calculus -- Erased to make prayer book
(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am merely pointing out that your thesis is a minority one.

My thesis was not addressed in the quote because the quote treats a completely different question. An appeal to popularity isn't much help for you, either.

(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am not appealing to authority, and your pompous 'laudable' is not constructive.

I'm not trying to construct anything, I'm trying to point out that appealing to summaries from Wikipedia means you're a beginner.

(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Conflating science and religion does little to aid our understanding of either.

Of the two of us, only one is actually making any concerted effort to understand either. Did you read the books I cited yet, or do you really have no intention whatsoever of pursuing knowledge and assumptions outside of that you already have in your brain?

(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you want to propose that scientism is like a religion, I believe you have a stronger thesis.

"Scientism" is exactly the kind of worldview I'm talking about. As I have repeatedly emphasized, I am absolutely not saying all science is religion. What I have repeatedly emphasized is that many people's conceptualization of science falls under the sociological definition of a religion. You call a specific instantiation of that scientism, which is exactly the kind of conceptualization to which I refer. Glad to see you agree with me.

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04-01-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: Ancient Greek text laying foundations for Calculus -- Erased to make prayer book
(04-01-2014 01:11 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am merely pointing out that your thesis is a minority one.

My thesis was not addressed in the quote because the quote treats a completely different question. An appeal to popularity isn't much help for you, either.

(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am not appealing to authority, and your pompous 'laudable' is not constructive.

I'm not trying to construct anything, I'm trying to point out that appealing to summaries from Wikipedia means you're a beginner.

(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Conflating science and religion does little to aid our understanding of either.

Of the two of us, only one is actually making any concerted effort to understand either. Did you read the books I cited yet, or do you really have no intention whatsoever of pursuing knowledge and assumptions outside of that you already have in your brain?

(04-01-2014 12:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you want to propose that scientism is like a religion, I believe you have a stronger thesis.

"Scientism" is exactly the kind of worldview I'm talking about. As I have repeatedly emphasized, I am absolutely not saying all science is religion. What I have repeatedly emphasized is that many people's conceptualization of science falls under the sociological definition of a religion. You call a specific instantiation of that scientism, which is exactly the kind of conceptualization to which I refer. Glad to see you agree with me.

You suggested several authors but only one specific book, Midgely's Evolution as a Religion. I agree that there are those you have a religious fervor or even worldview as in scientism, but you have been too general, too sweeping, in your characterization of science as religion.

I will suggest in return that you read some Dennett and some Hofstadter to gain a scientific view of information and meaning.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-01-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: Ancient Greek text laying foundations for Calculus -- Erased to make prayer book
(04-01-2014 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  You suggested several authors but only one specific book, Midgely's Evolution as a Religion.

I linked to the prominent books from each of the authors twice.

(04-01-2014 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  I agree that there are those you have a religious fervor or even worldview as in scientism, but you have been too general, too sweeping, in your characterization of science as religion.

I would invite you to provide specific quotes of me being too general and sweeping. It seems to me it is your misunderstanding of my claims that has been too general and sweeping.

(04-01-2014 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  I will suggest in return that you read some Dennett and some Hofstadter to gain a scientific view of information and meaning.

I'm familiar with both authors.

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