And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
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16-01-2015, 02:22 PM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
(16-01-2015 12:05 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The mental gymnastics are what's most troubling to me. Priests actually saying if the boy is over the age of 12 it's a homosexual urge and not molestation.

The trying to validate it somehow..."gee I never thought there was anything wrong with having sex with children."

This isn't first time I've heard of a priest using that excuse. There was a debate a while ago with Hitchens and some catholic priest...

A good friend who's a staunch catholic said to me the priests (or the church as a whole) weren't to blame. They didn't understand the abuse of authority *might* be damaging to some. Now I didn't share the fact I'm a sexual abuse survivor...and I find that reasoning to be utter bullshit.

It's not just a face-palm moment but it's dangerously out of touch with any type of reality. The fact that people would consider defending that personal level of stupid is worse. The so-called moral authority didn't know it was against the law and wrong -- we'll give him a pass. He knows now and won't ever do it again. Or the ever popular we should just pray for them.....

Again....it's bullshit.

There were some Catholics on Catholic Answers that were trying to say it wasn't "pedophilia" as the kids were slightly older, (15 and 16), and it was the kids fault.
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-01-2015, 03:36 PM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
Even if you didn't/don't know it's illegal to have sex with children...which I don't believe is the case...how do you not know it's just wrong?

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16-01-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
(16-01-2015 03:36 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Even if you didn't/don't know it's illegal to have sex with children...which I don't believe is the case...how do you not know it's just wrong?

It's that infallible moral authority failing. Angel


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16-01-2015, 03:56 PM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
Maybe the catholics are just trying to even the score for all of the young virgin girls that were violated in the babble. But if they go one little boy at a time, it is going to take a while to get up to the 32,000 young ladies in the book of numbers alone!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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16-01-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
But, but, objective morality! blah, blah, blah...
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17-01-2015, 12:17 AM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
He didn't know?

I'm speechless.
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17-01-2015, 12:42 AM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
(16-01-2015 10:46 AM)Ace Wrote:  is there a correlation and causation between being a priest and having lots of sinful sexual frustration ?

Here's my 2c worth on this....

The American media has exposed priest offenders in nearly every state of the USA. In February 2004, the final reports of two surveys commissioned by the US bishops (one must give them credit for doing this) were released. These surveys were conducted by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York (http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/Pries...andal.htm) and by the National Review Board (http://old.usccb.org/nrb/nrbstudy/nrbreport.htm). Both reports looked at the issue of youth sexual abuse among Catholic clergy in the USA since the 1950s.

The John Jay survey revealed that almost forty-five hundred clergy perpetrators had been reported by dioceses since 1950, 4.3 percent of those actively working as priests in the period, and that at least ten thousand known victims had made plausible allegations against priests. The authors made the point that these figures were almost certainly an underestimate, and that the Church would face many more allegations in the years to come. Most victims were aged eleven to fourteen and eighty-one percent were boys. Seventy-six percent of the allegations made against priests had never been reported to law enforcement authorities.

The National Review Board report placed blame for this directly on the bishops’ negligence. One of its concluding recommendations was that
“Dioceses and orders should report all allegations of sexual abuse to the civil authorities, regardless of the circumstances, or the age or perceived credibility of the accuser” (pg.144.)

In 2009, in Ireland, a document known as the “Ryan report” (http://www.childabusecommission.com/rpt/) was released following a lengthy investigation of residential “Reformatory and Industrial Schools” operated by the Catholic Church and run mainly by the Christian Brothers. Justice Sean Ryan, a High Court judge, wrote the five-volume report based on nine years’ worth of interviews of victims, teachers, and others. It concluded that sexual abuse was “endemic” in the boys’ institutions and occasional in girls’ institutions, and that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential. The sexual abuse of boys ranged from improper touching and fondling, to rape with violence. Perpetrators were able to operate undetected for long periods in these institutions. The Irish Times called the report:
“… a devastating indictment of Church and State authorities” and
“… the map of an Irish hell” and reported that
“The sheer scale and longevity of the torment inflected on defenseless children—over eight hundred known abusers in over two hundred Catholic institutions during a period of thirty-five years—should alone make it clear that it was not accidental or opportunistic but systematic. Abuse was not a failure of the system. It was the system.”

Please read the above quote again.

The Murphy Report, (http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB09000504) headed by Judge Yvonne Murphy, is the result of a public inquiry commissioned by the Irish government to investigate the way in which the Church dealt with allegations of sexual abuse of children by priests over the period 1975 to 2004 in the Catholic archdiocese of Dublin. The original brief was to report in eighteen months, but such was the volume of evidence and allegations concerning the abusive behavior of a sample batch of forty-six priests, who between them had allegedly abused thousands (!) of children, that time extensions had to be allowed. The commission made no attempt to establish whether sexual abuse actually took place, but examined the manner in which church and state authorities dealt with complaints. The 720-page report was publicly released in 2009. It stated that there was

“no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up” from January 1975 to May 2004.

The report recognized in no uncertain terms that the Church itself, as controlled by the Vatican, had protected its priests and its assets:

“The Dublin Archdiocese’s pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid-1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets. All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities. The Archdiocese did not implement its own canon law rules and did its best to avoid any application of the law of the State.”
The report noted that Church leaders were well aware of the risk to children; as early as 1987, they took out insurance policies to cover the legal costs of future compensation claims.

Richard Sipe is a retired American Roman Catholic priest involved in full-time research and consultation about the sexual practices of Roman Catholic clergy (http://www.awrsipe.com, http://www.richardsipe.com/reports/sipe_...2005.htm). He has authored six books on the subject, and has served as a respected consultant and expert witness in over two hundred cases involving sexual abuse of minors by Catholic clergy. He claimed, in 2005, that

“Dioceses throughout the United States are now recording an average of 7 to 9 percent priest abusers of minors in their records.” (http://www.richardsipe.com/Dialogue/Dial...–23.html).

How can this be? Surely the existence of any known child abusers still working as Catholic priests is unacceptable.

The statistics in countries in the rest of Europe, Canada, Australia, Asia, Africa and South America are not as well documented as yet, but there are similar horrific stories of abuse. The figures in the developed world will one day pale in comparison to the number in the developing world, such as in Latin America and Africa, where large-scale official investigations into Catholic priests’ behavior are yet to be conducted. (http://clericalabusewatch.blogspot.com.a...h-in.html, http://www.themediaproject.org/article/t...page=0,0). These countries (not prisons!) have been the dumping grounds for repeat priest offenders. Some of these priests live with women or men, but that is no guarantee that the sex with children has stopped.

The large majority of Catholic clergy, perhaps about 92%, are not sexual predators of children, yet that does not excuse them from sheltering their colleagues, and failing to protect juveniles from known offenders. The offenders did not live isolated lives; they were, and are, part of an “old boys club,” so the vast majority of priests always were well aware, at least at a local level, of what was going on, yet nearly always did nothing to alert secular authorities. The vast majority of them were too afraid of compromising their own positions, or creating an embarrassing stir in public opinion. It was much easier to just sit quietly and pretend nothing was going on. Never mind the children. So there is no doubt there is a universal guilt amongst the majority of Catholic clergy.

Whether the percentage of Catholic priests who abuse children and youths is much greater than for other Christian and non-Christian religious leaders (such as gurus, imams, ministers, pastors or rabbis) is unclear, as I can find no reliable data about these groups. It is also difficult to find consistent reliable statistics as to what percentage of adult males in the general population sexually abuse children.

Up until recent years some Catholic priests have taken advantage of freer access to children than the average adult man, because they used to enjoy a position of authority and trust. Thus the number of abused children per offending priest is probably larger than for the average secular molester.

It is possible that some Catholic priests chose their “calling,” or remained in the priesthood, because of the access it gave them to defenseless children.

If you were a child molester, there was no place to find easier pickings, and no better safe haven in which to hide, than in the priestly garb of the RC church.

The statistics from Ireland and the United States suggest that homosexual activity is grossly over-represented in the Catholic clergy as compared to the general population, because roughly 80% of the victims were boys, whereas victims of secular perpetrators are more likely to be girls. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse). In fact estimates of the rate of homosexuality amongst Catholic American priests range from 23% to over 50% (http://www.latrompette.net/post/A-e005-R...f-God.htm, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/26...5550.html, http://americamagazine.org/issue/387/art...l-priest).

There is nothing illegal or immoral about being homosexual, and no-one should jump to the erroneous conclusion that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles. Yet these figures may surprise some conservative Catholics, and it is ironic that the Vatican so vehemently condemns homosexual behavior when their own ranks are so stacked with male homosexuals. (http://dot429.com/articles/1305-vatican-...ex-unions)

The Catholic priesthood is a brotherhood of men who are not allowed to get married. In the past, they were respected members of society, and they were not suspected of being gay. It is possible that the priesthood was an attractive option for young homosexual men unwilling to publically admit their sexual inclination.

What made, and makes, so many of them abuse children is unclear. Perhaps they could not unashamedly address their sexuality with other adults, and found themselves isolated. Children became an easy target because they were vulnerable, and explanations were not necessary.


Irrespective of the possible reasons, the statistics are shocking! Thousands of heartless, sadistic, Catholic priests gratified themselves at the expense of innocent children, usually pre pubescent boys who were not confident or physically strong enough to resist their advances, and then the institution protected them.
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17-01-2015, 02:16 AM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
(16-01-2015 02:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-01-2015 12:05 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The mental gymnastics are what's most troubling to me. Priests actually saying if the boy is over the age of 12 it's a homosexual urge and not molestation.

The trying to validate it somehow..."gee I never thought there was anything wrong with having sex with children."

This isn't first time I've heard of a priest using that excuse. There was a debate a while ago with Hitchens and some catholic priest...

A good friend who's a staunch catholic said to me the priests (or the church as a whole) weren't to blame. They didn't understand the abuse of authority *might* be damaging to some. Now I didn't share the fact I'm a sexual abuse survivor...and I find that reasoning to be utter bullshit.

It's not just a face-palm moment but it's dangerously out of touch with any type of reality. The fact that people would consider defending that personal level of stupid is worse. The so-called moral authority didn't know it was against the law and wrong -- we'll give him a pass. He knows now and won't ever do it again. Or the ever popular we should just pray for them.....

Again....it's bullshit.

There were some Catholics on Catholic Answers that were trying to say it wasn't "pedophilia" as the kids were slightly older, (15 and 16), and it was the kids fault.
Facepalm

It was the kids fault that the priests penis became erect and slid into their hoo haw?

How is that possible? That is like trying to say that its the forks fault for making you fat!


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17-01-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
(16-01-2015 02:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There were some Catholics on Catholic Answers that were trying to say it wasn't "pedophilia" as the kids were slightly older, (15 and 16), and it was the kids fault.
Facepalm

Well, sure, I mean those altar boys strutting around in those sexy black robes with that starched white front... and then they stand there holding those long thick candles... I mean, how much provocation is a priest supposed to have to withstand? Those kids are just asking for it.
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17-01-2015, 09:00 AM
RE: And the hits keep on coming from the Catholic church.
(17-01-2015 12:42 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  [b]The Catholic priesthood is a brotherhood of men who are not allowed to get married. In the past, they were respected members of society, and they were not suspected of being gay. It is possible that the priesthood was an attractive option for young homosexual men unwilling to publically admit their sexual inclination.

Really? For all of my adult life it's been clear that many of them were gay.
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