And why are *some* theists afraid of death?
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16-04-2014, 02:53 AM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2014 02:57 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 06:29 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Church historians (Bucky etc.) might be able to provide references but I ain't one so I can't be bothered but ...

I think I read somewhere that the early church did a really good job of persuading the flock how good the afterlife would be with Jesus and family that there was a big problem with suicides.

Suicide is a problem for the church as it decreases revenue.

So the idea of suicide being a mortal sin was invented.

So theists (at least Caffolics) are afraid of death because the Cafia are very good salesmen... they are in the persuasion business.

Next time I chat to one of my Buddhist buddies, I'll ask "Why don't you just kill yourself?"... in a nice way.

Big Grin

Of course, they might reply... "I did".
Consider

Re "Suicide is a problem for the church as it decreases revenue."

Good observation! I hadn't thought of that. We can add it to

- gay marriage is a problem for the church as there's no new catholic children, so it decreases revenue

- condoms are problem for the church because they too reduce the numbers of catholics, so they decrease revenue.

- oral contraceptives are a problem for the church because they too decrease revenue.

- married priests are a problem for the church because they decrease revenue.

- secular education is a problem for the church because it decreases revenue.

- women in the workforce is a problem for the church because it decreases revenue.

- paying tax is a problem for the church because it decreases revenue.

- compensating kids for sexual abuse is a problem for the church because it compromises revenue

- making church finances transparent is a problem for the church because it compromises revenue

Isn't it funny how "God" has such an overwhelming obsession with not compromising revenue?
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16-04-2014, 03:42 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(16-04-2014 02:53 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 06:29 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Church historians (Bucky etc.) might be able to provide references but I ain't one so I can't be bothered but ...

I think I read somewhere that the early church did a really good job of persuading the flock how good the afterlife would be with Jesus and family that there was a big problem with suicides.

Suicide is a problem for the church as it decreases revenue.

So the idea of suicide being a mortal sin was invented.

So theists (at least Caffolics) are afraid of death because the Cafia are very good salesmen... they are in the persuasion business.

Next time I chat to one of my Buddhist buddies, I'll ask "Why don't you just kill yourself?"... in a nice way.

Big Grin

Of course, they might reply... "I did".
Consider

Re "Suicide is a problem for the church as it decreases revenue."

Good observation! I hadn't thought of that. We can add it to

- gay marriage is a problem for the church as there's no new catholic children, so it decreases revenue

- condoms are problem for the church because they too reduce the numbers of catholics, so they decrease revenue.

- oral contraceptives are a problem for the church because they too decrease revenue.

- married priests are a problem for the church because they decrease revenue.

- secular education is a problem for the church because it decreases revenue.

- women in the workforce is a problem for the church because it decreases revenue.

- paying tax is a problem for the church because it decreases revenue.

- compensating kids for sexual abuse is a problem for the church because it compromises revenue

- making church finances transparent is a problem for the church because it compromises revenue

Isn't it funny how "God" has such an overwhelming obsession with not compromising revenue?

I'm starting to think god may be a wan...sorry...banker. Laugh out load

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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16-04-2014, 04:54 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 06:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  We just fucking introduced it to make the math work out. The fuck that even mean?

It means that when the elevator's in the lobby and you push 1, ya don't go anywhere.

...and when one is not afraid of death, doing shit like chasing after a bear with a stick seems like fun, so there's that. Angel

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16-04-2014, 05:10 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(16-04-2014 04:54 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ...and when one is not afraid of death, doing shit like chasing after a bear with a stick seems like fun, so there's that. Angel

That's not a death wish, that's a pain wish! Gasp
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16-04-2014, 05:13 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 06:54 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Interesting question...as for Christians, I would think there wouldn't be any fear if you have lived by the rules. However, I can see being a bit jittery if you think you have bought yourself a one-way ticket to eternal damnation.

I'd imagine that religion hammers on the point that the believer is unworthy so hard that even if they think they've lived a good life, the guilt of their inescapable status as unworthy, imperfect sinners is overwhelming. I bet the cognitive dissonance of (for christians) an omnipotent god who can't make a perfect thing and has to send himself to earth to be tortured and murdered and brutally sacrificed to himself in order to move himself to forgive his creation for being what he made them to be is it's own special brand of hell. It certainly ferhoodles the crap out of me, but then I was raised by atheists in an atheist home, and the only time I ever "tried on" religion I couldn't "believe". Laugh out load
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16-04-2014, 06:03 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(16-04-2014 05:13 AM)Mat0816 Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 06:54 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Interesting question...as for Christians, I would think there wouldn't be any fear if you have lived by the rules. However, I can see being a bit jittery if you think you have bought yourself a one-way ticket to eternal damnation.

I'd imagine that religion hammers on the point that the believer is unworthy so hard that even if they think they've lived a good life, the guilt of their inescapable status as unworthy, imperfect sinners is overwhelming. I bet the cognitive dissonance of (for christians) an omnipotent god who can't make a perfect thing and has to send himself to earth to be tortured and murdered and brutally sacrificed to himself in order to move himself to forgive his creation for being what he made them to be is it's own special brand of hell. It certainly ferhoodles the crap out of me, but then I was raised by atheists in an atheist home, and the only time I ever "tried on" religion I couldn't "believe". Laugh out load

It all confuses the hell outta me also. Like you I was not raised religious so I have never suffered the guilt of original sin or worried about whether I'll be burned for eternity so I can't really understand how stressful that must be. I only ever had some vague sense of some kind of xtian god and that was pretty easy to shake once I actually read the bible and devoted a bit of thought to it.

It seems awfully easy to really piss off the big guy upstairs so it must be more stressful and worrying being a theist than an atheist.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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16-04-2014, 06:24 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
Some rambling thoughts...

When I was a kid someone said to me that hell would be an eternity of being on your own. And not being able to do anything about it. Everyone else is having a party but you're stuck out in the eternal cold... They tacked on some bullshit about how if that happened to you it was your fault 'cos you'd have *chosen* to reject the wonderful sacrifice that Jesus made for you etc.

And then there was the issue that fucking Yahweh gets seriously pissed over even the most minor sin. Like he's a serious psycho. We were brought up with the knowledge that God does not forgive even the most minor teeny tiny sin, like not doing your homework. Fortunately there was a magic spell, you just had to believe truly that Jesus was your Lord and Saviour and Jesus magically stopped God from handing you your ass, should you be so unlucky as to die at that moment.

The only issue with the magic spell was, there's this tension that they create in you by telling you that some people are not true Christians. By their fruits ye shall know them etc. Plus there's this deal of that it's literally impossible not to wank furiously through your teen years (well, impossible for me anyway). So there's the guilt and the problem of not necessarily being 100% sure that Jesus is gonna help you out should you kick the proverbial bucket.

I mean, Christianity is basically a death cult. Like, right from when you're a young kid you're brought up thinking about what happens when you die. So... it's hardly surprising that it scares the pants off little kids. Kids are supposed to be chasing chickens and footballs and stuff, not frikken wondering about the Hebrew translation of 'wank' and praying for forgiveness from some malevolent entity who's threatening to cook you *and* all your loved ones should they be so daft as to oppose the church... Frequently less religious people were pointed out as people who were going to HELL... Like yeah... Jesus fuck... fuck that shit. And those patterns persist into adulthood. You're *brought up* scared of death.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-04-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
I'm not.

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16-04-2014, 07:29 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(16-04-2014 06:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not.
Good point! Can the thread topic be renamed to "And why are *some* theists afraid of death?"?

May I ask you why are you not afraid of death? Your answer may be helpful to other people who are theists but may be afraid of death.

Thanks for a great reply!
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16-04-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: And why are theists afraid of death?
(16-04-2014 07:29 AM)living thing Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 06:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not.
Good point! Can the thread topic be renamed to "And why are *some* theists afraid of death?"?

Really ain't no point. Generalizations are either trivial or fallacious; and since atheists are supra-geniuses ( Big Grin ), we know that "theists" means "some/many theists."

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