Angry about FGM
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23-07-2012, 04:02 PM
Angry about FGM
This is in no way a "new thing" to me, but BBC Newsnight is currently broadcasting a piece on FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) in the UK.

This is more of a cultural thing than a theistic thing, and I have little other than unconditional rage at the mothers who damage their daughters like this. They claim that it is a traditional thing and claim that no man would want their daughter in their natural state. This is (to put it mildly) a false claim. Even the Somalian men that they interviewed said that it didn't concern them, that they had no preference for it and that it was the mothers who insisted on maintaining a tradition that they, themselves, had undergone.

Male circumcision is bad. Female circumcision is horrific.
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24-07-2012, 03:29 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
We had a few topics on this, and I do agree that it is horrific. One of the worst "traditions" I have ever seen. No, it is THE worst "tradition" ever.

When you think about it, what do you think, where does this shit come from? I think that it is religious based (go figure) and I think I even have an explanation for it. You know how horrible stories were told to boys that if they masturbate they will go blind? This has gone to a new level. For a woman to touch herself, it is just horribly wrong, but for a woman to actually enjoy sex, that is unacceptable. So to make sure that the woman will be loyal to her husband and that she will never want to have sex with another man, they decided that "this" is the way to go. Just think about it, with this mutilation, they have successfully stopped all the mutilated women from ever wanting to have sex. Except when their husband is around, they can not say no to him.

This is something to take a gun and put a bullet to every head that had anything to do with any of these mutilations.

I think I'm gonna start listening to RATM again...

But if we take a closer look, we can see how a lot of religions treat women as sex objects, just to be used by their husband. That is where the Muslims come in and cover their wives in burkas and hijabs and whatdoyoucallem shits. It is why a woman MUST be a virgin before marriage.

How did we come from adoring and worshipping woman's body as a fertility goddess to mutilating and enslaving women to be used as men slaves? Is it the modern religions maybe? Islam and Christianity? Anyone?

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30-07-2012, 07:10 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(24-07-2012 03:29 AM)Filox Wrote:  How did we come from adoring and worshipping woman's body as a fertility goddess to mutilating and enslaving women to be used as men slaves? Is it the modern religions maybe? Islam and Christianity? Anyone?

I'd like to speculate.

When human society was small, and fragile, "people" were in great demand. People to gather food, people to build, people to arm, etc. People died young, and often. And so all early cultures revered women - or fertility, because they produced people.

And so a culture developed were women were seen as a resource. I'd speculate this was one of a few reasons why women were then treated as property - they've become living factories. They had to churn out children. Children to farm the land, to send off to war, to make money, to become heirs, etc.

Women were now uneducated, feeble, weak, - perhaps something to be detested? Women could be used and abused, freely. To the point that male African slaves "the lowest of the low" were able to vote before "white women". Cultures (say, religions) just adapted the then current culture which had women at such a low level.

I'd wager that future religions will have all genders on a more equal level.
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30-07-2012, 08:55 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(24-07-2012 03:29 AM)Filox Wrote:  How did we come from adoring and worshipping woman's body as a fertility goddess to mutilating and enslaving women to be used as men slaves?

Heart Filox; I officially adore you. Heart

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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31-07-2012, 12:14 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
Thank you, but I think this is just one of those logical and moral things, pretty clear to see, and yet people are all looking with eyes wide shout. Islam is great for opening your eyes, all that man-woman relations in Islam, so clear, so easy to explain...

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01-08-2012, 01:45 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
Did you ever thought about hijabs and burkas and what is the reasoning behind that practice? We all know how Muslims have explained that it is because they do not want other men looking at their women. So the original explanation is for the purpose of keeping the women "pure" and holding them for only one man. A bit like a personal slave.

Then I had a discussion with my Muslim friend (Muslim by ethnicity, atheist, and a militant, one by religion) and he has explained to me that there was more to this than keeping the women "safe" from other men. In fact it was the opposite. You see, most of the wealthy Muslims have (and had) more than one wife. Sooner or later they get bored with them, but to marry a new one every time you get bored with them, would just be too expensive. So the men decided to share their wives and burkas came in pretty handy.

Now, thanx to burkas, one men can send his wife to his friend and nobody will know who is the woman that went "to that other house", because no one can see who she is. So they could easily exchange their wives without anyone knowing and without having to stone their wives because everyone now thinks they are committing adultery.

I have no idea how true this is, but it does sound pretty valid. Also, he was born a Muslim, so he knew and knows much more "internal" things than I do.

What do you people think?

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01-08-2012, 02:04 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
I have always failed to understand how normal virile males could enjoy sex with women whose most sensitive sex organ has been mutilated. Clearly an evil one way self gratification. This action by males is akin to rape and arguably as bad as the old hags who cut up the clitoris of little girls with rusty razorblades, killing them at time, and if not, destroying their sexuality and ensuring their enslavement..
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01-08-2012, 02:16 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
Whoever said that these men were "normal virile" males? They are not normal in any sense, isn't that obvious? This practice gives chance to all perverts, rapists, pedophiles, BSDM lovers, slave owners to have their fantasies come true. And it also keeps their women from cheating, as no woman wants to have sex after this "procedure".

Normal virile males are probably looking for normal women, but there is a problem here as well. What we think as "normal" comes from out culture, education and traditions. They are raised in a "society" where FGM is normal, religiously correct, socially accepted and morally desired. So, there is the real problem, this is their culture and tradition, so it is a normal thing for them. Normal women are considered not-normal.

That is why we must change the way these people think, educate them while they are young, not judge and prosecute them one by one. Maybe if we talk about Christ with them...

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01-08-2012, 05:48 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(01-08-2012 02:04 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I have always failed to understand how normal virile males could enjoy sex with women whose most sensitive sex organ has been mutilated. Clearly an evil one way self gratification. This action by males is akin to rape and arguably as bad as the old hags who cut up the clitoris of little girls with rusty razorblades, killing them at time, and if not, destroying their sexuality and ensuring their enslavement..

But that is just it. It isn't normal, and neither are they. I am sure a woman would want her genitalia healthy, and so would I. Not all males want it done to women, it is the minority who find it exceptable.

About the current discussion, why are we just talking about female genital mutilation? It happens to both genders, and it is incredibly disgusting for both. If anything, the OP should be pissed about all of it.

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01-08-2012, 05:57 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(01-08-2012 05:48 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  About the current discussion, why are we just talking about female genital mutilation? It happens to both genders, and it is incredibly disgusting for both. If anything, the OP should be pissed about all of it.

I did mention male circumcision. I am pissed about all of it. Nobody should have their body altered (for no positive healthy reason) without their consent. Everyone who has it done to them has been violated.

There are differences, however, and female circumcision is much more damaging. For a man, the glans is less sensitive and sex lacks a certain amount of stimulation. For a woman, having the clitoris removed and the vagina sewn up... that goes well beyond the man's woes (putting it mildly).

Male circumcision is done (as a baby) for theistic reasons. Female circumcision is done for traditional non-theistic reasons. It is a true abomination and it is prescribed by women who have had it done to them... and it is that lack of empathy that disgusts me (along with the disfigurement).
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