Angry about FGM
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01-08-2012, 06:07 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(01-08-2012 05:57 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(01-08-2012 05:48 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  About the current discussion, why are we just talking about female genital mutilation? It happens to both genders, and it is incredibly disgusting for both. If anything, the OP should be pissed about all of it.

I did mention male circumcision. I am pissed about all of it. Nobody should have their body altered (for no positive healthy reason) without their consent. Everyone who has it done to them has been violated.

There are differences, however, and female circumcision is much more damaging. For a man, the glans is less sensitive and sex lacks a certain amount of stimulation. For a woman, having the clitoris removed and the vagina sewn up... that goes well beyond the man's woes (putting it mildly).

Male circumcision is done (as a baby) for theistic reasons. Female circumcision is done for traditional non-theistic reasons. It is a true abomination and it is prescribed by women who have had it done to them... and it is that lack of empathy that disgusts me (along with the disfigurement).

Try: Male genital mutilation is horrific. Female genital mutilation abhorrent and despicable. "Bad" sounds like it is horribly watered-down.

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01-08-2012, 06:17 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(01-08-2012 06:07 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Try: Male genital mutilation is horrific. Female genital mutilation abhorrent and despicable. "Bad" sounds like it is horribly watered-down.

OK. I really wasn't trying to down-play male circumcision.
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01-08-2012, 06:30 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
Lol. Sorry for griping about semantics.

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01-08-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
I think it has to do with the idea that menstruating makes a woman unclean.
With time this was drawn out to the enslavement of women. le sigh

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01-08-2012, 12:19 PM
RE: Angry about FGM
There is another side in this argument though. These traditions have been around for so long that the girls believe it is nessesary. Fgm aside (it's horrible) the wearing of hijabs and burkas has become a symbol of identity. I can't remember where the articule came from, but thewomen involved said that we (western society) were the perverts. They said that by allowing women to wear short shorts and mini-skirts we were dressing them up to be eye candy; their sole purpose was to please the eye and looking around sometimes I'm inclined to believe them.

All that said I do not condone fgm or the oppression of the peoples rights. Just trying to provide a different viewpoint.

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01-08-2012, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2012 08:27 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Angry about FGM
(24-07-2012 03:29 AM)Filox Wrote:  How did we come from adoring and worshipping woman's body as a fertility goddess to mutilating and enslaving women to be used as men slaves? Is it the modern religions maybe? Islam and Christianity? Anyone?

For most of the time in which Yahweh was worshiped in his temples and shrines, so was his wife/consort, Ashura/Ashera. The worship of Ashera was suppressed in the post exilic period, when power and a national consciousness was attempting to be (re)concentrated in Jerusalem. No archaeologist disputes this.

The long slow process of that removal is too nerdly for here, and been recounted many places. The Genesis texts were changed, to reflect submission, during the long development towards monotheism, from monolateralism.

http://www.infobarrel.com/Gods_Wife_Asherah
http://www.wheeloftheyear.com/reference/asherah.htm

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01-08-2012, 12:38 PM
RE: Angry about FGM
(01-08-2012 12:19 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  There is another side in this argument though. These traditions have been around for so long that the girls believe it is nessesary. Fgm aside (it's horrible) the wearing of hijabs and burkas has become a symbol of identity. I can't remember where the articule came from, but thewomen involved said that we (western society) were the perverts. They said that by allowing women to wear short shorts and mini-skirts we were dressing them up to be eye candy; their sole purpose was to please the eye and looking around sometimes I'm inclined to believe them.

All that said I do not condone fgm or the oppression of the peoples rights. Just trying to provide a different viewpoint.

Sure. Take away one's identity and all they have to uphold is someone else's idea of their identity. Tradition is the external display of a cultural identity.

Acceptance or rejection of traditions shape, form and reform cultural identity. It's all a part of grasping responsibility, and guiding one's culture into the future.

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01-08-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: Angry about FGM
Can you people please NOT compare male and female circumcision? Because you will never find any woman that will go to the doctor and ask a circumcision, and you can find thousands of males that do that. I have a few friends that willingly went in their 20+ years to do the procedure. Also, those that did it did not say that sex had less feeling, in fact they all confirmed that the sex was much better now, that they have removed the extra foreskin. There are hygienic reasons behind it as well. Some people also love the new look more than the old look.

None of these attributes can be associated with female circumcision. None. It has no medical, hygienic, sexual or aesthetic attributes, while male circumcision can have some or all those attributes.

Is it wrong to do it to male children? Yes, let them decide on their own. Is it "horrible and unforgivable"? Not even remotely close to those words.

Is there ANY reason or explanation for female circumcision? None. For anything. And it is horrible mutilation, very dangerous, highly risky and it damages the normal functionality of female reproductive organs.

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02-08-2012, 12:16 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
(01-08-2012 02:16 AM)Filox Wrote:  Whoever said that these men were "normal virile" males? They are not normal in any sense, isn't that obvious? This practice gives chance to all perverts, rapists, pedophiles, BSDM lovers, slave owners to have their fantasies come true. And it also keeps their women from cheating, as no woman wants to have sex after this "procedure".

Normal virile males are probably looking for normal women, but there is a problem here as well. What we think as "normal" comes from out culture, education and traditions. They are raised in a "society" where FGM is normal, religiously correct, socially accepted and morally desired. So, there is the real problem, this is their culture and tradition, so it is a normal thing for them. Normal women are considered not-normal.

That is why we must change the way these people think, educate them while they are young, not judge and prosecute them one by one. Maybe if we talk about Christ with them...
I am claiming that some "normalcy" goes beyond enculturation!
Clitorectomies performed on infants is different to women choosing subordination and domination by their spouse and it is very difficult to claim 'normalcy' where some people may prefer options far removed from western values.

I doubt if talking about Christ would help much other than for his objection to stoning adulterers. On the other hand Paul was very much in favour of the woman being subservient to the male. Again, I am not claiming that men who use women purely for their self gratification are normal (justified) as you seem to suggest I am doing,quiite the contrary!
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02-08-2012, 12:26 AM
RE: Angry about FGM
You kinda missed my point. Of course it is not normal FOR US, but it is normal FOR THEM. If they were not considering that to be normal, they wouldn't do it and they would be horrified by the act the same way we are horrified. I could never have sex with a women like that, it would be a bit too much for me, and yet they think it's normal and they prefer their women like that. Maybe not all of them consider it to be normal, but it is a part of their culture and tradition, that makes it normal. FOR THEM. The same way Muslims consider it normal for a woman to wear a hijab and burka. We do not think that is normal.

As for the "talk about Christ", that was a sarcastic joke. Sure, I would talk about Jesus with someone, yeah right.

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