Animal Consciousness and Meat
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10-12-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(10-12-2012 03:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  He is high functioning, so we're lucky in that regard. He was diagnosed rather late, it wasn't until he began school, we really saw the issues. It's hard to explain -- too lengthy to write the whole story. We always knew he was rather different from his older extremely verbal brother (you can't compare kids Yanno). But in mostly small ways we dismissed as shyness. He seemed a little delayed in something's but totally on target for other things. A further complication was that he was born nearly two months premature -- so was he delayed because of that or was there something else going?

I had read about autism online, read the listed warning signs, and really dismissed them because he only displayed maybe one of the classic symptoms. When he was formally tested, the list of questions they asked was very extensive -- much more so than I'd ever read...and it became glaringly evident. Today he's 13, in many typical classes and doing fairly well. Socially he's still slow -- there are many concepts he has a hard time understanding -- like reading expressions, sarcasm or jokes.
I understand. One of my childhood friends has autism, so I know, somewhat, how it feels.

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11-12-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
All living things are conscious, only human beings are self conscious, this ability to be self conscious leads to many other things which is why this self consciousness is usually referred to as conscience

A chicken is aware and conscious of it's surroundings but can't be self conscious and think to itself "I wonder if that bug I am about to eat is conscious or not".

I had this discussion before with my ex, whether or not animals can love. I won the argument and animals can't love...next
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11-12-2012, 03:09 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 02:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  All living things are conscious, only human beings are self conscious, this ability to be self conscious leads to many other things which is why this self consciousness is usually referred to as conscience

A chicken is aware and conscious of it's surroundings but can't be self conscious and think to itself "I wonder if that bug I am about to eat is conscious or not".

I had this discussion before with my ex, whether or not animals can love. I won the argument and animals can't love...next
Bacteria are conscious?

Dogs can certainly love; elephants, too.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-12-2012, 03:10 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
You do realise that "love" is a hormonal reaction that, to my knowledge, all mammals (at the very least) can experience?

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11-12-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
Lovely. This thread just made me crave some buffalo chicken wings, steak, and a double cheeseburger.

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11-12-2012, 03:41 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
Made me want to kick the back of the nearest vegans head...

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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11-12-2012, 03:48 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 02:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  All living things are conscious, only human beings are self conscious, this ability to be self conscious leads to many other things which is why this self consciousness is usually referred to as conscience

A chicken is aware and conscious of it's surroundings but can't be self conscious and think to itself "I wonder if that bug I am about to eat is conscious or not".
What evidence do you have to support this claim? How do you know that humans are the only self-conscious animals?

(11-12-2012 02:55 PM)I and I Wrote:  I had this discussion before with my ex, whether or not animals can love. I won the argument and animals can't love...next
Oh, sorry, I must be on the wrong forum. I was under the impression that anecdotal stories don't substitute a coherent and factually supported argument. My bad.

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11-12-2012, 03:49 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 03:10 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  You do realise that "love" is a hormonal reaction that, to my knowledge, all mammals (at the very least) can experience?

I disagree. What we equate as "love" involves a complex set of hormones and all revolves around mating snd sex. "Love" is not required for either. Again there is a difference between projecting your own emotions onto another species and knowing exactly what they are feeling or thinking.

Animals are completely capable of basic emotions. But love and hate as we know them aren't basic -- both need to be taught. Fear is an example of a basic emotion.
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11-12-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
I sure as hell wouldn't give up meat. However I'm all for making edible meat that doesn't have to suffer one iota. I mean Mcdonalds meat was never even alive was it?

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11-12-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 03:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But love and hate as we know them aren't basic -- both need to be taught.
What an absurd claim. What definition of love and hate are you thinking of that makes you say this?

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