Animal Consciousness and Meat
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11-12-2012, 04:00 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 03:56 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I sure as hell wouldn't give up meat. However I'm all for making edible meat that doesn't have to suffer one iota. I mean Mcdonalds meat was never even alive was it?
Isn't "McDonalds meat" an oxymoron?

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11-12-2012, 04:10 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 04:00 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 03:56 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I sure as hell wouldn't give up meat. However I'm all for making edible meat that doesn't have to suffer one iota. I mean Mcdonalds meat was never even alive was it?
Isn't "McDonalds meat" an oxymoron?
That's implying whatever substance that comprises their patties is meat. Drinking Beverage

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11-12-2012, 04:37 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 04:10 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 04:00 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Isn't "McDonalds meat" an oxymoron?
That's implying whatever substance that comprises their patties is meat. Drinking Beverage


Zactly.

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11-12-2012, 04:57 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 09:50 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 03:56 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 03:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But love and hate as we know them aren't basic -- both need to be taught.
What an absurd claim. What definition of love and hate are you thinking of that makes you say this?

Love and hate are secondary emotions not inherent. A baby can feel a prime emotion such as joy, anger, fear, or grief for example but actual love and hate are both taught and come later. Most children learn what love and hate are from their parental figures (not necessarily from their parents). Eventually we discern what those words mean. We extrapolate their meaning based solely on our world view.

I see nothing absurd in the claim, this is very basic psychology.
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11-12-2012, 05:39 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/87/

I apologize not having read through all 13 pages to see if this has already been posted, but I think the above blog from Richard Carrier is one of the better ethical arguments for eating meat. I think in the comment sections there are some good counter arguments as well though it has been awhile since I have read all of them. For me as comming from a religion that practiced fasting from meat 6mnths out of the year forced vegetarianism would be a tough road. I am not sure I could stop even if I thought it was unethical. I would be a self hating foodie. Lent and Advent were difficult enough.

I am no longer fighting my inner demons. We are all on the same side now.
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11-12-2012, 05:45 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
What about fish? Was that discussed. I have both a cousin and friend who will not eat chicken, beef, and ect land animals for ethical reason, but have no problem eating fish.

I am no longer fighting my inner demons. We are all on the same side now.
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11-12-2012, 07:47 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 05:45 PM)mrba1979 Wrote:  What about fish? Was that discussed. I have both a cousin and friend who will not eat chicken, beef, and ect land animals for ethical reason, but have no problem eating fish.



I feel that fish are less feeling creatures than, say,beef or lamb, and crustacea even less so.

Used to eat fish but presently on ova/lacto intake.

Of course seafood may feel a lot as suggested bu atheist philosopher A.C. Grayling..
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11-12-2012, 09:03 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
yay party tiem. I just read through ~130 posts with mos

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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12-12-2012, 12:34 AM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(09-12-2012 11:02 AM)FZUMedia Wrote:  
(09-12-2012 09:51 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Like I said, we came from a balanced diet predecessor, which itself came from a herbivorous predecessor, which explains our digestive system, which while based initially on herbavoric diet, adapted to suit a slow increase in meat consumption which lead the the mixed diet of Australopithecus, from which Homo species derived a better digestive system for handling meat and Homo ate more meat likely due to previously described dietary restrictions.
We cannot unevolve traits from our predecessors, all we can do is adapt them, which is what we have done in terms of our digestive system, which now harbours some evolutionary left overs which serve no purpose in our more meat centric diets.

Humans lack the ability to produce vitamin C due to a mutation in the "GULO (gulonolactone oxidase) gene"which result in the inability to synthesis the protein. This in no way is caused by our predecessor species diets. But is due to random mutation. The mutation is seen in many species with different dietary habits such as mice, bats (omnivorous) other dry nosed primates, and herbivorous guinea pigs which prevent them from producing the vitamin in the same way.


Also, don't misuse the word "theory" to mean conjecture on my part. Tooth enamel samples taken from early hominid species have been taken and show our ancestors and sister species ate varied, omnivorous diets, and modern human and older Homo jaws and teeth show a strong adaptation for meat consumption. (teeth changes to accommodate tearing and grinding of meat and softer fruit like plants, the jaw changed to accommodate this as well providing less grinding power common in herbivores for example)
Again all theory, I care about results, not what people say. We have identical digestion systems to apes, until you can prove otherwise I will discredit your theories as to why humans are naturally meat eaters.

You don't even need to get that technical to realise that humans are naturally herbivores, it only takes a moments thought, for example;

I eat 3k-5k calories a day in fruit/vegetables and have a low body fat % and perfect scores in blood tests- can you imagine if I ate this amount from meat? I would likely die, not just be fat, but I would actually be in mortal danger. Whereas I can eat 20-35 bananas a day and feel loose as a goose and ready to go. In fact almost all athletes have a primarily plant based diet, low in fat. I know that Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake claim to eat 15 bananas a day and other fruits as a staple. Athletes generally eat meat off season every now and then for a treat, but the staple is fruit- so I think that's important.
Your strident dogmatic assertions relating to nutrition are quite annoying.
Like other systems of scientific thought, there are many theorists holding different views.
As for your claims that suicides are all the result of some early lack, this seems incredibly naive.
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12-12-2012, 07:46 AM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(11-12-2012 04:57 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Love and hate are secondary emotions not inherent. A baby can feel a prime emotion such as joy, anger, fear, or grief for example but actual love and hate are both taught and come later. Most children learn what love and hate are from their parental figures (not necessarily from their parents). Eventually we discern what those words mean. We extrapolate their meaning based solely on our world view.

I see nothing absurd in the claim, this is very basic psychology.
Since you haven't told me what love and hate are for you, there's not much I can say about this.

Going by the dictionary definition of these emotions, I don't see how they need to be taught.

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