Animal Consciousness and Meat
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17-12-2012, 07:41 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(17-12-2012 06:51 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 06:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Taxes are the price of civilization. You pay your share because you reap the benefit.

If you don't like it, then don't participate.
It is inflicted on me whether I like it or not because I happened to be born where the G-mafia has base in. 'Participate' is the wrong word, since it implies voluntarism for which it is involuntary. 'Comply' is a better word.
You have the choice to go elsewhere or to simply opt out of the financial system. There is an underground economy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-12-2012, 08:14 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(17-12-2012 07:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 06:51 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  It is inflicted on me whether I like it or not because I happened to be born where the G-mafia has base in. 'Participate' is the wrong word, since it implies voluntarism for which it is involuntary. 'Comply' is a better word.
You have the choice to go elsewhere or to simply opt out of the financial system. There is an underground economy.
I have the choice to evade the local mafia- Truly I am free.
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17-12-2012, 08:32 PM
Re: Animal Consciousness and Meat
What are you guys doing? The burgers are ready.
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17-12-2012, 08:34 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(17-12-2012 08:32 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  What are you guys doing? The burgers are ready.
Did you do one up nice and rare for me?

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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17-12-2012, 11:02 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2012 11:07 PM by bemore.)
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
*experiencing WTFs at a rate of several per minute*

*Virtually walks away shaking head in confusion, bewilderment and a hint of pity"

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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18-12-2012, 06:43 AM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(16-12-2012 04:38 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  
(16-12-2012 12:36 PM)bemore Wrote:  



Fuck our species.
So watching standard procedure for processing meat makes you upset yet you claim humans are natural omnivores? interesting... I wonder if other omnivores have empathy for it's prey?
Not entirely sure what you're getting at here...

If it's what I think, that you are suggesting we are the only omnivores that have empathy for prey, oh how ignorant you are.

There are countless video evidence of preying species that show obvious signs of empathy. There is a video of a one of the big cats (can't remember if it's a leopard or not) that tried to protect and care for its prey's offspring. The cat brought the offspring into the tree with it and kept watch over it. The offspring died, but it was due to the cat not being able to provide for it properly. If I recall correctly, it was a type of monkey.

There's another video of a male lion forcing himself to ingest one of his offspring after it was killed. The lion was visibly distressed and making vocalizations during the whole process. Those vocalizations were nothing like the type you hear when they are feeding on normal prey.

Long story short, if empathy is your reason for justifying veganism/vegetarianism, you are effectively deeming all of these other species of animals immoral.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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18-12-2012, 06:49 AM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(17-12-2012 05:24 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 05:08 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  Example: Chas---> known for being terse and deadly and sometime a bit grumpy, but makes good points and is willing to see both sides of an argument; has positive rep.

Fzumedia----> known for ignoring or misrepresenting arguments. Grumpy, but lacks the cunning to be terse and deadly; has negative rep.

Xino----> random poster, tries to avoid confrontation (unless its autism); has moderate positive rep.



Just adding to what chas said.

I lean towards making arguments where I don't need to be an expert on every topic and know every study and chart ready for reference- I can do the job just as effectively with basic logic to simplify issues. I've tried being the research hound before in my debating career, and it is more stressful than what the rewards are.

How someone arguing a similar position would make a case: "Here is, x, y, z research showing why having no minimum wage or lower minimum wage would be better for the economy".

How I argue: "If I want to work in a factory for $5 an hour, why are you stopping me?".

Although sometimes research and quoted data is necessary, It's just important to establish fundamentals and morality before going into any conversation with someone.


The problem with relying solely on logic is that you sometimes end up like William Lane Craig: someone who only thinks they are being logical

Logic is unique. What's logical to you might be illogical to the next guy. Unless of course we are dealing with facts like math. It would be universally illogical for you to think that 1+1 = 3000. Although I will also point out that historically, there have been many discoveries that have defied logic such as a universe that doesn't revolve around Earth.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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18-12-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(18-12-2012 06:43 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  There's another video of a male lion forcing himself to ingest one of his offspring after it was killed. The lion was visibly distressed and making vocalizations during the whole process. Those vocalizations were nothing like the type you hear when they are feeding on normal prey.

Long story short, if empathy is your reason for justifying veganism/vegetarianism, you are effectively deeming all of these other species of animals immoral.
Bear in mind male lions routinely kill the offspring of other male lions when they take over a pride. I don't think morals come into nature at all; it would be more accurate to say nature is amoral rather than immoral.
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18-12-2012, 04:36 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(18-12-2012 03:42 PM)thirdangletheory Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 06:43 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  There's another video of a male lion forcing himself to ingest one of his offspring after it was killed. The lion was visibly distressed and making vocalizations during the whole process. Those vocalizations were nothing like the type you hear when they are feeding on normal prey.

Long story short, if empathy is your reason for justifying veganism/vegetarianism, you are effectively deeming all of these other species of animals immoral.
Bear in mind male lions routinely kill the offspring of other male lions when they take over a pride. I don't think morals come into nature at all; it would be more accurate to say nature is amoral rather than immoral.
This is a malformed assumption that morals are universally objective. Morality is almost entirely subjective and differs from various social species as well.

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18-12-2012, 05:11 PM
RE: Animal Consciousness and Meat
(18-12-2012 04:36 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 03:42 PM)thirdangletheory Wrote:  Bear in mind male lions routinely kill the offspring of other male lions when they take over a pride. I don't think morals come into nature at all; it would be more accurate to say nature is amoral rather than immoral.
This is a malformed assumption that morals are universally objective. Morality is almost entirely subjective and differs from various social species as well.
If morality is not universal then I can kill people for any 'greater good'. Either all murder is wrong, or no murder is wrong. Either all rape is wrong, or all rape is right- you can't pick and choose morals.
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