Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
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22-02-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
(21-02-2012 09:57 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(21-02-2012 09:56 PM)Ben Wrote:  
(21-02-2012 09:55 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(21-02-2012 09:40 PM)Ben Wrote:  
(21-02-2012 09:27 PM)Thomas Wrote:  I didn't say the trees were having a conversation about when it might rain again.
It's just interesting how many species have evolved communication techniques that seem to have nothing to do with self preservation.

What animals have communication that seem to have nothing to do with self preservation?

Honey bees.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought bees communicated to tell the rest of the hive where all the good flowers are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarm_signal

That is interesting. Cool

My guess would be that it helps the replication of the gene by protecting primarily family members.
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23-02-2012, 05:22 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
Consciousness takes us in a philosophical journey as only a handful of other topics can, we can't even be sure other people are conscious as we can't experience what's on their minds, about animals and plants that's even more complicated. But, if we assume other beings are capable of consciousness, and that this is in the brain, then I think is fairly safe to assume that animals are conscious, at least to some extent according to the complexity of their brain, so maybe the less complex ones are in what we might feel like drunkenness maybe.
About plants, we will never know, we have no point of comparison with them, it doesn't seem probable though, as they don't seem to have an homologue for the animal nervous system.

In any case, this is a very hard topic, because we can't even define consciousness properly as far as I know, is very complicated :/

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23-02-2012, 06:36 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
This is a topic I rarely discuss because I've always seen it without the human bias. Anything that I can experience can surely be experienced by anything else. If another human can experience it its all the same. Your great arguments about why obviously humans are the better are the same arguments they used against black people and savages. You can't seriously argue consciousness because we can't properly communicate. All that we do with any non-human being is observe. It's very obvious that with only observing we can see the same sort of idiocy within other groups of humans. You don't know anything about a level of intelligence until you can properly communicate.

I have always said that there is no indication that humans in any way are a superior being and if you want to discuss superior beings I guess let's just call planets superior beings. If a human is to be considered a single living organism even though countless microorganisms truly make up the being then a planet is just as alive.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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23-02-2012, 08:19 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
(23-02-2012 06:36 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  This is a topic I rarely discuss because I've always seen it without the human bias. Anything that I can experience can surely be experienced by anything else. If another human can experience it its all the same. Your great arguments about why obviously humans are the better are the same arguments they used against black people and savages. You can't seriously argue consciousness because we can't properly communicate. All that we do with any non-human being is observe. It's very obvious that with only observing we can see the same sort of idiocy within other groups of humans. You don't know anything about a level of intelligence until you can properly communicate.

I have always said that there is no indication that humans in any way are a superior being and if you want to discuss superior beings I guess let's just call planets superior beings. If a human is to be considered a single living organism even though countless microorganisms truly make up the being then a planet is just as alive.

Basically we are just more intellectually advanced by evolutionary accident. Any primate could have moved past us and they would be on a forum discussing us. Reptiles could have as well. They were here long before we got going. Thanks to a meteorite that hit 65 million years ago they got knocked back.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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23-02-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
(23-02-2012 08:19 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Basically we are just more intellectually advanced by evolutionary accident. Any primate could have moved past us and they would be on a forum discussing us. Reptiles could have as well. They were here long before we got going. Thanks to a meteorite that hit 65 million years ago they got knocked back.

Nah, T-Rex never would have been able to reach the keyboard anyway.
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23-02-2012, 09:02 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
(23-02-2012 08:30 PM)rook2004 Wrote:  
(23-02-2012 08:19 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Basically we are just more intellectually advanced by evolutionary accident. Any primate could have moved past us and they would be on a forum discussing us. Reptiles could have as well. They were here long before we got going. Thanks to a meteorite that hit 65 million years ago they got knocked back.

Nah, T-Rex never would have been able to reach the keyboard anyway.

T-Rex would have invented another input device. Tongue
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23-02-2012, 10:16 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
(23-02-2012 09:02 PM)Ben Wrote:  
(23-02-2012 08:30 PM)rook2004 Wrote:  
(23-02-2012 08:19 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Basically we are just more intellectually advanced by evolutionary accident. Any primate could have moved past us and they would be on a forum discussing us. Reptiles could have as well. They were here long before we got going. Thanks to a meteorite that hit 65 million years ago they got knocked back.

Nah, T-Rex never would have been able to reach the keyboard anyway.

T-Rex would have invented another input device. Tongue

that's just crazy talk Tongue

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23-02-2012, 10:27 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
That we can win a fight with anything else doesn't really make us the most advanced. There are too many ways to rate intelligent or advanced. The biggest part being we don' even have a basis for real comparison. Tool making is not the end all beat all of evolution, it just allowed us to find very elaborate ways to entertain ourselves.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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25-02-2012, 02:10 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
When I first started this thread I wanted to say so much......but it is a subject that encompasses so many different things..... I know what I want to say its just finding a route within these damn words so they just end up as ramblings (like the huge majority of my posts) Tongue

Its like we get lost in our "individualism" and all see ourselves as seperate (as in we each have our own seperate identity/personality/ego) yet when in reality we are just a part of the "whole"

We characterise "life" as something that is within the same realms as what we experience/know.........yet who is to say that something as simple as a rock could not be alive......with a conciousness of being simply in existence......it would know nothing else pretty much like us.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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25-02-2012, 07:38 PM
RE: Animal/Insect/Plant Consciousness.
(18-02-2012 07:45 PM)Ben Wrote:  Whatever causes consciousness, it's a lot more than simply reacting.

Might not be a lot more. Could just be a little more and it's a step function.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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