Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
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04-09-2014, 10:26 PM
Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
One thing I've observed about those who just Heart adore Heart animals is that they are incapable of blaming the animal for anything that it does.

A general statement, I know, but hear me out. I like animals just as much as the next guy. If I see a possum crossing the street, I slow down. Not because it'd fuck up my car if I hit it - I've accidentally hit a shit-load of possums out here in the woods and the only resulting sensation is of a small *thump-thump* beneath the front and rear tires. No, I avoid hitting the possum because it's a little critter who's just trying to go about his evening and it'd be a real dick-move to just come out of nowhere and kill his whole buzz by caressing his furry little cheek with the heft of two Goodyear all-terrains in rapid succession. Same with raccoons and groundhogs and deer. Fuck deer, though.

But what about more conventional animals like dogs? To be frank, I'm not a dog person. I grew up with the things, and after almost 20 years of owning a minimum of 5 at any given time, I've decided I don't want to own another dog. In fact, the very first thing I did when I moved into my new house was cooked a lovely steak dinner with all the fixings, put it all on a nice big plate, and then placed the plate on the floor in the middle of my living room. I then undressed and spent the next 20 minutes in the shower; confident in the knowledge that when I got back, it'd still be right there waiting for me. Sure enough, upon my return, I found my dinner completely untouched. I smiled as I ate it at my kitchen table. (That's actually a true story) Not something even remotely within the realm of possibility when you have invited beasts into your home.

With that said, though, I don't mind dogs as animals. When I go to a friend's house and they have a dog, I'll play with the dog. I'll sacrifice my own comfort and health (I have allergies) to let the dog lay its head down on my lap. Why? Because he wants to and I'm not gonna disturb him. If I really want to eat that last bite of burger but happen to see the dog staring at me, I'll pull it away from my open mouth and just toss it to him. Hell, get me drunk enough and I've been known to pass out on the dog bed with both arms around two black labs while the terrier sleeps in my lap. (Sorry, all photos have been deleted)

So, I don't mind animals. Animals are fine.

What really pisses me right the fuck off, however, is when people who take their love of animals to the brink of absurdity begin to say stupid, stupid things about animals in general and start to belittle me and label me as someone who "hates animals" when I point out that, sometimes, an animal needs to be dealt with harshly for actions which have caused harm to others.

The simplest example would be when a dog - let's call it a pitbull, just to make it that much more stereotypical - attacks a child, and the dog-humpers (as I call them) come running to the dog's side. "He's misunderstood!" they say. "He didn't mean any harm; he's just a dog!" The blame is then shifted to the owners. "They must not have trained the dog properly!" they conclude. But the dog has attended obedience training for the past 6 months. "Well where did they get the dog from? Obviously he was trained to fight." But the family has bred dogs for years. The dog was born and raised in this lovely, green grass, picket-fence home in suburbia. "Well the child shouldn't have been playing so rough with him; the parents should have taught her not to pull the dog's ears." Are you blaming the 1-year-old for inadvertently inciting an attack? "Well, no, but I do blame the parents. They should have kept the dog separate from the child!" Why, is the dog dangerous? "Of course not! The child pulled his ears - he didn't mean any harm; he's just a dog!"

Round and around we go. I've had numerous conversations like these and have even severed a friendship because of them. There is a particular breed of people who, no matter what, will absolutely refuse to place any blame on an animal - like a dog - when the animal attacks and someone gets hurt. They argue irrationally in defense of the animal, and even begin to contradict themselves. Many have claimed that dogs aren't vicious by nature and need to be trained to be so by humans. And yet, these people willingly accept that dogs can be bred to be good-tempered. Why is it that we can breed dogs to have positive temperaments, but not negative ones? These people will accept only the good in an animal and will dismiss even the possibility of the bad.

Now, I understand that as human beings, we hold a measure of responsibility. We took the dog into our home a few thousand years ago after removing it from its natural routine as a wolf. The dog became a part of our lives and, eventually, evolved to be under our subjugation. They take orders from us and are perfectly content to do so. We give them homes and sustenance and a "pack" to which they belong. So, when little Sally gets mauled by Sparky, yes, I'm gonna ask the parents where the hell they were and why this child was left alone with the dog. Often times it's because we trust our pets, but even that can be an error in human responsibility. These animals - whatever they may be - are just that. Animals. Even the most intelligent animals are driven mainly by instinct. (In the end, aren't we all?) Deep inside even the smallest chihuahua, hidden deep within the vast and complex depths of his DNA, there is a wolf. A wolf that speaks a language very different from ours. A wolf cannot say "Please stop that." He can only growl. A wolf cannot say "Dude, seriously, stop." He can only bite. And if there should come a time when that instinctual trigger is pulled for whatever reason, the wolf will come out and the animal will act according to its nature. Many of us have seen this first-hand, myself included. When that trigger is pulled, no amount of verbal commands - trained into the animal since birth - are able to bring the wolf back into submission.

But this is something the uber-animal-lovers flat-out refuse to see. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that humans are "always" to blame, all of the time. And that's when the outcry goes out because the animal has been neutralized. The dog demonstrated that it will attack and even kill what it considers to be its "master" if necessary, and it was put down because of it. No, it wasn't sent to a new family, because it has demonstrated that it could be dangerous to them. No, it wasn't sent to a pretty little farm to live with a bunch of other doggies. (Despite what you told the kids) It was put to sleep because it demonstrated itself to be a mortal danger to those around it and was thus not fit to commingle with others - human or dog. And that's something the dog-humpers won't accept. Like christians making excuses for their god's atrocities, the animal is never to be blamed for anything. Anything it did was excusable in some way because it was our fault, "either directly or indirectly." (Can you tell I'm quoting a moron I discussed this with just this evening?)


Please bear in mind that I'm not suggesting that all situations are to be viewed in the same light and that I realize some things must be taken on a case-by-case basis. But god dammit, when are people going to understand that an animal of any kind is an independently thinking entity capable of its own motives, actions and, yes, responsibility?

There's only so much blame to be placed on us. If I walk outside tonight and get mauled by the bear who's been stalking around our neighborhood woods for years, sure, maybe it can be argued that I shouldn't have moved into bear country. But then, maybe the rape victim shouldn't have gone down that particular alley that night. But that doesn't make it her fault for getting raped, and it doesn't make it my fault for being mauled. The county would track down and neutralize the animal, and justifiably so.


*Sigh* So, I shudder to ask…. Thoughts?

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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04-09-2014, 10:51 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
Dogs?

Fuck 'em.

They don't like me and I don't like them.

/story

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04-09-2014, 10:59 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(04-09-2014 10:51 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Dogs?

Fuck 'em.

They don't like me and I don't like them.

/story

TL;DR

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05-09-2014, 06:33 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(04-09-2014 10:51 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Dogs?

Fuck 'em.

They don't like me and I don't like them.

It's because they can tell you don't have a soul. That scares 'em shitless.
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05-09-2014, 07:52 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(04-09-2014 10:26 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  One thing I've observed about those who just Heart adore Heart animals is that they are incapable of blaming the animal for anything that it does.

A general statement, I know, but hear me out. I like animals just as much as the next guy. If I see a possum crossing the street, I slow down. Not because it'd fuck up my car if I hit it - I've accidentally hit a shit-load of possums out here in the woods and the only resulting sensation is of a small *thump-thump* beneath the front and rear tires. No, I avoid hitting the possum because it's a little critter who's just trying to go about his evening and it'd be a real dick-move to just come out of nowhere and kill his whole buzz by caressing his furry little cheek with the heft of two Goodyear all-terrains in rapid succession. Same with raccoons and groundhogs and deer. Fuck deer, though.

But what about more conventional animals like dogs? To be frank, I'm not a dog person. I grew up with the things, and after almost 20 years of owning a minimum of 5 at any given time, I've decided I don't want to own another dog. In fact, the very first thing I did when I moved into my new house was cooked a lovely steak dinner with all the fixings, put it all on a nice big plate, and then placed the plate on the floor in the middle of my living room. I then undressed and spent the next 20 minutes in the shower; confident in the knowledge that when I got back, it'd still be right there waiting for me. Sure enough, upon my return, I found my dinner completely untouched. I smiled as I ate it at my kitchen table. (That's actually a true story) Not something even remotely within the realm of possibility when you have invited beasts into your home.

With that said, though, I don't mind dogs as animals. When I go to a friend's house and they have a dog, I'll play with the dog. I'll sacrifice my own comfort and health (I have allergies) to let the dog lay its head down on my lap. Why? Because he wants to and I'm not gonna disturb him. If I really want to eat that last bite of burger but happen to see the dog staring at me, I'll pull it away from my open mouth and just toss it to him. Hell, get me drunk enough and I've been known to pass out on the dog bed with both arms around two black labs while the terrier sleeps in my lap. (Sorry, all photos have been deleted)

So, I don't mind animals. Animals are fine.

What really pisses me right the fuck off, however, is when people who take their love of animals to the brink of absurdity begin to say stupid, stupid things about animals in general and start to belittle me and label me as someone who "hates animals" when I point out that, sometimes, an animal needs to be dealt with harshly for actions which have caused harm to others.

The simplest example would be when a dog - let's call it a pitbull, just to make it that much more stereotypical - attacks a child, and the dog-humpers (as I call them) come running to the dog's side. "He's misunderstood!" they say. "He didn't mean any harm; he's just a dog!" The blame is then shifted to the owners. "They must not have trained the dog properly!" they conclude. But the dog has attended obedience training for the past 6 months. "Well where did they get the dog from? Obviously he was trained to fight." But the family has bred dogs for years. The dog was born and raised in this lovely, green grass, picket-fence home in suburbia. "Well the child shouldn't have been playing so rough with him; the parents should have taught her not to pull the dog's ears." Are you blaming the 1-year-old for inadvertently inciting an attack? "Well, no, but I do blame the parents. They should have kept the dog separate from the child!" Why, is the dog dangerous? "Of course not! The child pulled his ears - he didn't mean any harm; he's just a dog!"

Round and around we go. I've had numerous conversations like these and have even severed a friendship because of them. There is a particular breed of people who, no matter what, will absolutely refuse to place any blame on an animal - like a dog - when the animal attacks and someone gets hurt. They argue irrationally in defense of the animal, and even begin to contradict themselves. Many have claimed that dogs aren't vicious by nature and need to be trained to be so by humans. And yet, these people willingly accept that dogs can be bred to be good-tempered. Why is it that we can breed dogs to have positive temperaments, but not negative ones? These people will accept only the good in an animal and will dismiss even the possibility of the bad.

Now, I understand that as human beings, we hold a measure of responsibility. We took the dog into our home a few thousand years ago after removing it from its natural routine as a wolf. The dog became a part of our lives and, eventually, evolved to be under our subjugation. They take orders from us and are perfectly content to do so. We give them homes and sustenance and a "pack" to which they belong. So, when little Sally gets mauled by Sparky, yes, I'm gonna ask the parents where the hell they were and why this child was left alone with the dog. Often times it's because we trust our pets, but even that can be an error in human responsibility. These animals - whatever they may be - are just that. Animals. Even the most intelligent animals are driven mainly by instinct. (In the end, aren't we all?) Deep inside even the smallest chihuahua, hidden deep within the vast and complex depths of his DNA, there is a wolf. A wolf that speaks a language very different from ours. A wolf cannot say "Please stop that." He can only growl. A wolf cannot say "Dude, seriously, stop." He can only bite. And if there should come a time when that instinctual trigger is pulled for whatever reason, the wolf will come out and the animal will act according to its nature. Many of us have seen this first-hand, myself included. When that trigger is pulled, no amount of verbal commands - trained into the animal since birth - are able to bring the wolf back into submission.

But this is something the uber-animal-lovers flat-out refuse to see. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that humans are "always" to blame, all of the time. And that's when the outcry goes out because the animal has been neutralized. The dog demonstrated that it will attack and even kill what it considers to be its "master" if necessary, and it was put down because of it. No, it wasn't sent to a new family, because it has demonstrated that it could be dangerous to them. No, it wasn't sent to a pretty little farm to live with a bunch of other doggies. (Despite what you told the kids) It was put to sleep because it demonstrated itself to be a mortal danger to those around it and was thus not fit to commingle with others - human or dog. And that's something the dog-humpers won't accept. Like christians making excuses for their god's atrocities, the animal is never to be blamed for anything. Anything it did was excusable in some way because it was our fault, "either directly or indirectly." (Can you tell I'm quoting a moron I discussed this with just this evening?)


Please bear in mind that I'm not suggesting that all situations are to be viewed in the same light and that I realize some things must be taken on a case-by-case basis. But god dammit, when are people going to understand that an animal of any kind is an independently thinking entity capable of its own motives, actions and, yes, responsibility?

There's only so much blame to be placed on us. If I walk outside tonight and get mauled by the bear who's been stalking around our neighborhood woods for years, sure, maybe it can be argued that I shouldn't have moved into bear country. But then, maybe the rape victim shouldn't have gone down that particular alley that night. But that doesn't make it her fault for getting raped, and it doesn't make it my fault for being mauled. The county would track down and neutralize the animal, and justifiably so.


*Sigh* So, I shudder to ask…. Thoughts?

I hear ya. I train search and rescue k9s. I can't stand it when people think their dog is incapable of harm. I also, just so happened, to get mauled by a golden retriever. Needed surgery and miscarried.

It didn't mean to? Bullshit. Dog damn well meant to.

My favorite thing is the pit advocates who continue to propagate the complete and utter myth that the pit bull was once a nanny dog.

When I ask them to point to a single piece of 19 century literature about it, the just say a picture is worth a thousand words and show me those vintage pics with pits.

When I explain that the pic only proves that at one point people took pictures with their dogs and it's not proof of the nanny myth anymore than 16th century paintings of people with dogs means that the coonhound was a nanny breed.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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05-09-2014, 09:28 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
I do believe there are some bad dogs - ones that just can't learn their manners and boundaries. These dogs should be eliminated. (Not the Mike Vick way, though.)

But I blame the people more than the dogs. If their little darling is not properly socialized and trained, keep them home. Watch them. Don't allow them near people willy-nilly. Take them to training school. Face up to the responsibility, FPS.

Owners should be have to pass a course and be licensed, and fines should be astronomical.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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05-09-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
Well it's true that animals are capable of thinking and acting according to their own instincts. But you can't really blame an animal entirely for harming someone. As you said, WE brought them from the jungles into our homes, so isn't it OUR responsibility to take the precautions necessary to keep us safe? The dog didn't beg us to keep him with us, we brought him home and WE need to make sure that no harm comes from him. People keep lions as pets these days, but they would hardly leave it alone with an infant at night. Because they are aware of the dangers it involves. But they'd leave their babies alone with dogs all the time. So isn't it our fault that we have forgotten where a dog came from?
We don't allow children to play with pet lions as they please. So, we shouldn't allow children to play roughly with dogs as well.
Yes, ofcourse a dog is responsible for biting a child, but the dog doesn't know better, if he thinks he is being attacked by someone then he WILL retaliate, even if its a child. It's their survival instinct, why should we hate a dog for following his instincts?
Like it or not, it does come down to human irresponsibility. And that example you gave of a girl being raped, well the rapist KNOWS well enough that rape is bad and immoral, but a dog doesn't know that attacking someone to protect himself is bad. A dog can't differentiate between a child and an adult. It will do whatever it can to protect himself if need be. So will you. If you were attacked by someone and you killed him in self defense, will you really be the one to hold the blame?
Dogs don't attack unless provoked, it is our responsibility to make sure they aren't.

All great truths begin as blasphemy - George Bernard Shaw
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05-09-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
So basically case-in-point, eh Misanthropik?

Hehe. Some people think their dog's shit don't stink.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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05-09-2014, 02:51 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2014 02:56 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(05-09-2014 10:06 AM)Anna Wrote:  Dogs don't attack unless provoked, it is our responsibility to make sure they aren't.

This statement right here indicates to me that you actually don't know a lot about dogs.

Dogs can and will attack for any reason, and provocation is not required.

The dog that mauled me ran across a street (I was jogging on the other side), not even looking at him when he jumped on my back.

I've also worked with a lot of dogs with behavioral problems with my clients when I trained dogs for a living.

One minute a wagging tail, a "smiling" dog, a bite the next. Nothing changed.

The real issue is that just like all cognitive creatures, we have differing levels of empathy between us. Some dogs are more empathetic, can read their humans better. That's why these dogs are generally working dogs. Some dogs don't have as high of empathy as they should. It's not that they are mean spirited, but they just don't care what happens to their humans.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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05-09-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
I hate PETA as well.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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