Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
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15-09-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(14-09-2014 12:50 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(14-09-2014 06:30 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Reminded me of this thread






lol

I posted a link to photos of purebred dogs over the last 100 years on page 4 but here it is again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...imals.html

We always had mutts when I was growing up. We never had to take them to the vet except for shots. They were strong and healthy, a little on the dumb side but I don't what my dogs to be smarter than I am.

Yeah. Growing up our dogs came from shelters only.
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15-09-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(15-09-2014 08:28 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(14-09-2014 08:30 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  My friend would completely agree with you. She can name each dog heritage back, I don't know how many generations. She is first to admit that many breed for looks or the dog that best fits the standard.

Yabbut, she isn't given the proper tools by the AKC, and she should be.

For instance, German Shepherds bred in Germany with papers from the top breeder's organization have to pass health examinations, training in obedience, tracking and protection with achievement of a degree, and tests for disposition before they are permitted to breed. The pedigree includes details of hip and knee health, since that is the most common issue in that breed. The result is a well rounded dog with health and smarts and all the drives in proper place.

The AKC lists a few names of ancestors. The AKC sucks. It also gives out pedigrees to most anyone.

She agrees the breeding practices of the AKC shouldn't be any type of standard. I don't know how else to say that she doesn't nor has she EVER relied on their standard. She's ranted to me about them more than once over the years I've known her. She concerns herself with temperament and health when she breeds. She also believes strongly in spaying an neutering dogs that won't be bred. She must be a member of the AKC, because they have such a stranglehold on the breeding community. She would like to see them tighten their qualifications and get rid of the OFA.

Pit Bulls have their own health issues (temperament aside) hip dysplasia, they can be susceptible to parvo more than other breeds as well as allergies (like grass).


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-09-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(13-09-2014 06:06 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-09-2014 05:59 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'll never for the life of me understand people's love for this breed. There is an interesting opinion written by a pediatric cranofacial plastic surgeon who states that the majority of attacks that need his services are from pit bulls. He describes the aftermath of their attacks.

Pits are not more prone to attack than any other breed. All dogs can and will attack. But their attacks are so different in nature it's barely a comparison. Pit attacks go on and on and on.
Pits also lie about their mental state. Their warnings are so subtle the untrained eye wouldn't notice it. That's why the majority of dog attacks by pits are explained by the victim or witnesses that the attack "came out of nowhere."


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/.../11709481/


Yeah, people love pits because they are so very loving and comical that they find it hard to imagine the mood can change in a second and a vicious attack can occur.

Back in the day there would be "breed benefactors" adopting the breed and spending many generations breeding the fault out by only choosing the very mellowest animals for reproduction. It was a costly proposition and the general population wasn't really breeding purebreds. But nowadays everyone is a breeder long as they can get two dogs together, and disposition, health and other important traits aren't given any thought at all.

I disagree. You can trace AKC records back to the 1900s where culling of the breed did not take place. Quite the opposite. West's CH Spade aka maneater sired so many dogs that his linage is impressive. Besides maneater, a large number of champion (CH), grand champion (GR CH) and register of merit (ROM) fighting dogs: Adams' GR CH Zebo, Indian Bolio ROM, Garner's CH Chinaman ROM, Gambler's GR CH Virgil, and of course, West's CH Spade (man-eater) sired more than half the pit population before the split of the stafford bull terroir to the American pit bull.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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15-09-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(15-09-2014 11:25 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(13-09-2014 06:06 PM)Dom Wrote:  Yeah, people love pits because they are so very loving and comical that they find it hard to imagine the mood can change in a second and a vicious attack can occur.

Back in the day there would be "breed benefactors" adopting the breed and spending many generations breeding the fault out by only choosing the very mellowest animals for reproduction. It was a costly proposition and the general population wasn't really breeding purebreds. But nowadays everyone is a breeder long as they can get two dogs together, and disposition, health and other important traits aren't given any thought at all.

I disagree. You can trace AKC records back to the 1900s where culling of the breed did not take place. Quite the opposite. West's CH Spade aka maneater sired so many dogs that his linage is impressive. Besides maneater, a large number of champion (CH), grand champion (GR CH) and register of merit (ROM) fighting dogs: Adams' GR CH Zebo, Indian Bolio ROM, Garner's CH Chinaman ROM, Gambler's GR CH Virgil, and of course, West's CH Spade (man-eater) sired more than half the pit population before the split of the stafford bull terroir to the American pit bull.

Yes, but does it show health tests, disposition, learning abilities, scenting abilities and pertinent things of that sort? Far as I know it only shows names and conformation ranks?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-09-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(15-09-2014 12:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 11:25 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I disagree. You can trace AKC records back to the 1900s where culling of the breed did not take place. Quite the opposite. West's CH Spade aka maneater sired so many dogs that his linage is impressive. Besides maneater, a large number of champion (CH), grand champion (GR CH) and register of merit (ROM) fighting dogs: Adams' GR CH Zebo, Indian Bolio ROM, Garner's CH Chinaman ROM, Gambler's GR CH Virgil, and of course, West's CH Spade (man-eater) sired more than half the pit population before the split of the stafford bull terroir to the American pit bull.

Yes, but does it show health tests, disposition, learning abilities, scenting abilities and pertinent things of that sort? Far as I know it only shows names and conformation ranks?

Note that she said they were bred as fighting dogs.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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15-09-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(15-09-2014 12:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 12:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  Yes, but does it show health tests, disposition, learning abilities, scenting abilities and pertinent things of that sort? Far as I know it only shows names and conformation ranks?

Note that she said they were bred as fighting dogs.

Yep, I knew that. But there is no way to control the use of only sweet, docile specimen to save the breed (and it's a breed worth saving). No one even knows if the dog you may be looking at had any sweet, docile dogs in it's ancestry. There is no record keeping of such matters anymore. Well, not by the AKC anyway. Perhaps there are some responsible individuals out there who are doing a program to save the breed...

One of my favorite breeds, the Great Dane, wouldn't be around today if some people hadn't taken it upon themselves to alter the breed to a dog with practically no prey drive. They were every bit as aggressive as pits, and twice as fast and strong. Now they will still rise to the occasion if someone attacks you, but they don't chase anything. They may well be the gentlest of all the breeds. That didn't happen overnight, and it certainly didn't happen without meticulous record keeping of several of the characteristics of the breeding dogs. It's the lack of comprehensive record keeping I am complaining about.

Of course, as long as indiscriminate back yard breeding takes place, it's all pointless. So, while the AKC is well preferable over indiscriminate breeding all together, it has no quality control and hardly anything is recorded about the breeding dogs.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-09-2014, 04:58 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(15-09-2014 01:57 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 12:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  Note that she said they were bred as fighting dogs.

Yep, I knew that. But there is no way to control the use of only sweet, docile specimen to save the breed (and it's a breed worth saving). No one even knows if the dog you may be looking at had any sweet, docile dogs in it's ancestry. There is no record keeping of such matters anymore. Well, not by the AKC anyway. Perhaps there are some responsible individuals out there who are doing a program to save the breed...

One of my favorite breeds, the Great Dane, wouldn't be around today if some people hadn't taken it upon themselves to alter the breed to a dog with practically no prey drive. They were every bit as aggressive as pits, and twice as fast and strong. Now they will still rise to the occasion if someone attacks you, but they don't chase anything. They may well be the gentlest of all the breeds. That didn't happen overnight, and it certainly didn't happen without meticulous record keeping of several of the characteristics of the breeding dogs. It's the lack of comprehensive record keeping I am complaining about.

Of course, as long as indiscriminate back yard breeding takes place, it's all pointless. So, while the AKC is well preferable over indiscriminate breeding all together, it has no quality control and hardly anything is recorded about the breeding dogs.

Of course. And those gentle giants were culled. You can agree that it takes many many generations to cull a dog.

Look - I LOVE dogs. All dogs. But I refuse to sugarcoat what this breed can do. While even a toy breed can kill an infant, the number of fatalities of children is a reason not to own this dog. This breed is unlike any other in the way they hide their warning signs. I even stopped working with pits because of the way they flat out lie to you in their behavior. A happy, goofy, and submissive one second, going for your face the next. That duck of the head 1/4 inch was so suble, I almost missed it.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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16-09-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
I love animals (I have a zoo at home), but dislike most pet owners, especially dog owners. They let their dogs free roam and do not train them at all. Being out on the road running and cycling 5 days a week I have lots of run ins with free roaming dogs. Even without worrying about them biting me it is dangerous, especially when I am on my bike at 20 mph. There is a JRT in our subdivision and every time it is out when I am running it comes at me and get tangled in my feet. The owners know their dog will go after anyone that passes, but they let it out in the front yard anyway. One day I am going to get real pissed and stomp the dam thing.
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16-09-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(16-09-2014 07:43 AM)wazzel Wrote:  I love animals (I have a zoo at home), but dislike most pet owners, especially dog owners. They let their dogs free roam and do not train them at all. Being out on the road running and cycling 5 days a week I have lots of run ins with free roaming dogs. Even without worrying about them biting me it is dangerous, especially when I am on my bike at 20 mph. There is a JRT in our subdivision and every time it is out when I am running it comes at me and get tangled in my feet. The owners know their dog will go after anyone that passes, but they let it out in the front yard anyway. One day I am going to get real pissed and stomp the dam thing.

You would have hated us , but then we lived in a cabin in the high Sierra Nevada mountains with no back yard. Actually we did have a back yard, it was a mountain. We had a black lab that ran wild. He would go out for the day and come back once in a while just to see what we were up to and then head back out again and wander back sometime in the evening. He chased down deer by himself, cornered big bears up trees and once my brother saw him chasing a terrified mountain lion across a bunch of rocks. He was an amazing dog. When I went hiking in the woods (I was five at the time) my mother would have Sam the dog go with me for protection. He would have killed anything that threatened me. That dog had a wonderful life up in those mountains though. He had no collar, no leash, no stupid knitted sweater, he was totally free.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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16-09-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Animal Lovers (And why I can't stand them)
(16-09-2014 10:24 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 07:43 AM)wazzel Wrote:  I love animals (I have a zoo at home), but dislike most pet owners, especially dog owners. They let their dogs free roam and do not train them at all. Being out on the road running and cycling 5 days a week I have lots of run ins with free roaming dogs. Even without worrying about them biting me it is dangerous, especially when I am on my bike at 20 mph. There is a JRT in our subdivision and every time it is out when I am running it comes at me and get tangled in my feet. The owners know their dog will go after anyone that passes, but they let it out in the front yard anyway. One day I am going to get real pissed and stomp the dam thing.

You would have hated us , but then we lived in a cabin in the high Sierra Nevada mountains with no back yard. Actually we did have a back yard, it was a mountain. We had a black lab that ran wild. He would go out for the day and come back once in a while just to see what we were up to and then head back out again and wander back sometime in the evening. He chased down deer by himself, cornered big bears up trees and once my brother saw him chasing a terrified mountain lion across a bunch of rocks. He was an amazing dog. When I went hiking in the woods (I was five at the time) my mother would have Sam the dog go with me for protection. He would have killed anything that threatened me. That dog had a wonderful life up in those mountains though. He had no collar, no leash, no stupid knitted sweater, he was totally free.

Living in a subdivision is a different situation.
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