Animal Rights?
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03-11-2015, 06:59 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
Factory farming produces meat at far greater environmental cost than the equivalent amount of nutrition from veggies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/busine...d=all&_r=0

Just one link I googled - I rejected some as they were from pro-vegetarian blogs etc.

Apparently there are USDA reports on the same floating around, but I couldn't be bothered to track one down right now, maybe later. Some quotes from the linked article:

Quote:Grain, meat and even energy are roped together in a way that could have dire results. More meat means an increase in demand for feed, especially corn and soy, an increase some experts say will contribute to higher prices.

This will be inconvenient for residents of wealthier nations, but it could have tragic consequences for those of poorer ones, especially if higher prices for feed divert production away from food crops.

Quote:Though some 800 million people now suffer from hunger or malnutrition, the majority of corn and soy grown in the world feeds cattle, pigs and chickens. This is the case in spite of the inherent inefficiencies: About two to five times more grain is required to produce the same amount of calories through livestock as through direct grain consumption, according to Rosamond Naylor, an associate professor of economics at Stanford University. It is as much as 10 times more in the case of grain-fed beef in the United States.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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03-11-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(03-11-2015 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 12:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  I don't want "more humane" factory farming. I want it ended, personally. The reason it exists in the first place is profit. Normal farming though, e.g. keeping cows for milk, meat and other products, that I don't mind. The cows get a nice life and protection, they reproduce and so forth, and in exchange we require them to die when we determine it necessary. It's a decent deal. It's when they're kept in shitty conditions that I'm anti.

I have zero problem with eating meat myself, although I do limit my consumption 'cos I feel healthier with more veg, there's even the possibility at some point that I might go fully veggie just for shits and giggles.

If it wasn't for factory farming -- there would be a whole bunch of people busy starving to death right now.

As overpopulated as the world is -- factory farming will only go away when about 90 percent of the people do.

As far as "shitty conditions" --- I suspect that domesticated animals in almost ALL cases live a more stress free life than if they were living in the wild --- for if they were -- there would be far more predators on the planet than there are now.

So the typical cow, chicken or pig has the "choice" of a reasonably peaceful (albeit short) existence living under "factory farm" conditions -- or, the could live equally short - but more stressful existence trying to avoid cougars, bobcats, wolves and coyotes who are intent on tearing them apart and eating them....

We're on the top of the food chain, because we choose to be there..

Or did factory farming help cause there to be the opportunities to have that many people? At least some types of aggressively farming and manipulation of ways of existing.

That seems rather limiting to what constitutes "stressful"

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-11-2015, 07:06 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(03-11-2015 07:00 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:51 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If it wasn't for factory farming -- there would be a whole bunch of people busy starving to death right now.

As overpopulated as the world is -- factory farming will only go away when about 90 percent of the people do.

As far as "shitty conditions" --- I suspect that domesticated animals in almost ALL cases live a more stress free life than if they were living in the wild --- for if they were -- there would be far more predators on the planet than there are now.

So the typical cow, chicken or pig has the "choice" of a reasonably peaceful (albeit short) existence living under "factory farm" conditions -- or, the could live equally short - but more stressful existence trying to avoid cougars, bobcats, wolves and coyotes who are intent on tearing them apart and eating them....

We're on the top of the food chain, because we choose to be there..

Or did factory farming help cause there to be the opportunities to have that many people? At least some types of aggressively farming and manipulation of ways of existing.

That seems rather limiting to what constitutes "stressful"

I've got a couple of "factory farms" in my neighborhood.. (small scale compared to some) -- and I know the farmers who run them. Stressed animals don't gain weight.. Cattle are sold by weight. The farmer has a vested interest into seeing the cattle are "happy" as they can be.

Having observed cattle since I was a kid -- I'm convinced it's a pretty simple list of things that keep a cow "happy" -- food to eat -- and a place to stand around....And -- the milk cows want somebody to yank their teats a couple times a day.....

Past that - they don't need much in the way of recreation.....

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03-11-2015, 10:35 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(03-11-2015 12:59 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 12:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  I have zero problem with eating meat myself, although I do limit my consumption 'cos I feel healthier with more veg, there's even the possibility at some point that I might go fully veggie just for shits and giggles.

I also have zero qualms about eating meat. But I have noticed that over time I have lost my taste for it. Nothing ethical or anything, just lost my taste for it. Dafuq's up with that?

I've found that as I age, I'm less inclined to beef and more inclined to chicken, with the occasional vegetarian night.
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03-11-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(03-11-2015 07:00 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Or did factory farming help cause there to be the opportunities to have that many people?

Pretty sure the population got there first.

No farmer has an interest in glutting his own market.
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05-11-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
rights ? right to do what ? to bite and inure people ? to get in the way of everything ? and to fuck and shit all over the shitty fuckin place ? (the last one is a quote from Penn & Teller's Bullshit!)
if so then Facepalm

PETA be like:
rats and other vermin will be given the right to:
scurrying around the entire place and in subways
eating you garbage at night
spreading disease and pestilence

crows and pigeons and other birds will be given the right to :
to rain shit all over the place
to roost wherever they want
to make their annoying sounds everywhere

blah blah blabbidy blooming blah Facepalm

animals will continue to do what they've been doing whether or not we give them any rights, simply because they don't give a damn shit about the laws and stuff we make up on a regular basis
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06-11-2015, 12:27 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(05-11-2015 10:08 AM)Ace Wrote:  rights ? right to do what ? to bite and inure people ? to get in the way of everything ? and to fuck and shit all over the shitty fuckin place ? (the last one is a quote from Penn & Teller's Bullshit!)
if so then Facepalm
Perhaps a read of what people are actually saying... I mean, feel free to rant Rolleyes

Quote:PETA be like:
rats and other vermin will be given the right to:
scurrying around the entire place and in subways
eating you garbage at night
spreading disease and pestilence

crows and pigeons and other birds will be given the right to :
to rain shit all over the place
to roost wherever they want
to make their annoying sounds everywhere

blah blah blabbidy blooming blah Facepalm

animals will continue to do what they've been doing whether or not we give them any rights, simply because they don't give a damn shit about the laws and stuff we make up on a regular basis

Animals are affected by our laws. Rights are legal principles, legal protections. For example, humans often are granted legally the right to free speech. This means that in a court of law they cannot be prosecuted for saying what they like. It is by no means a given that they *will* always be able to say what they like, but we agree as a society to not make laws that contravene that right, and conversely to strive to protect people's ability to speak freely. In the same way, what *I'm* arguing for in this thread is some sort of 'right to humane treatment' that would be similarly legal protection for animals, especially those kept as livestock.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-11-2015, 08:56 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(03-11-2015 06:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:Grain, meat and even energy are roped together in a way that could have dire results. More meat means an increase in demand for feed, especially corn and soy, an increase some experts say will contribute to higher prices.

This will be inconvenient for residents of wealthier nations, but it could have tragic consequences for those of poorer ones, especially if higher prices for feed divert production away from food crops.

[Image: commodity_fig15fw.png&width=450]

http://ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-...embed=True

The bump in 2006 is attributed by some economists to a sudden increase in ethanol production.

Agree that factory farming is a bitch... but is it less or more efficient than a family farm?

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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06-11-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
(06-11-2015 08:56 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  Agree that factory farming is a bitch... but is it less or more efficient than a family farm?

Scale generally ensures efficiency.

I make maple syrup - and do so on a small scale. I know of large scale producers who produce 20 times what I do - with 2 employees - probably doing less work than I do.


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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-11-2015, 11:11 AM
RE: Animal Rights?
What biker said

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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