Animal morality
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12-04-2012, 10:41 AM
Animal morality
We have had numerous threads on the origins of human morality before. I brought up examples of animal morality in a few of them to show that it is not religion-based. Here is a recent TED talk by the primatologist Frans de Waal on the subject. Some of the videos that he shows are pretty funny, but enlightening at the same time. I was happy to find this because I have read two of de Waal's books.



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12-04-2012, 10:48 AM
RE: Animal morality
Yup, spotted this on Philhellenes site.

Good post!

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12-04-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Animal morality
I was reading a science magazine article about this very subject the other day.
Sadly I was just waiting for someone and never actually purchased the magazine so I can't quote it or anything.

But the article went through a bunch of scientific experiments that had been recently conducted that seemed to prove that animals have emotions and that Chimpanzees proved to have the ability to empathize. Oh how I wish I'd bought it then. Maybe I'll go out and get it later.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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12-04-2012, 12:13 PM
RE: Animal morality
(12-04-2012 11:07 AM)lucradis Wrote:  I was reading a science magazine article about this very subject the other day.
Sadly I was just waiting for someone and never actually purchased the magazine so I can't quote it or anything.

But the article went through a bunch of scientific experiments that had been recently conducted that seemed to prove that animals have emotions and that Chimpanzees proved to have the ability to empathize. Oh how I wish I'd bought it then. Maybe I'll go out and get it later.

Please let me know the name of it if you do.
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12-04-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: Animal morality
I've been pressing for non-moral status of most things considered moral.
Is eating ice cream moral? No. Non-moral
Is sex moral? No. Non-moral. It a recreational activity.
Is eating vanilla moral and chocolate immoral? No. Both are non-moral.
Is heterosexuality moral and homosexuality immoral? No. Both are non-moral.
When you let them frame the argument as moral versus immoral they set the rules. Change the rules.
The basic argument is, "I reject the premise that sex can be judged as moral or immoral. Therefore, homosexuality cannot be judged morally or ethically." See if your opponent can work out of that box.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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12-04-2012, 05:03 PM
 
RE: Animal morality
My dog has morality. So what? God gives us all the morality we need to survive. With humans we are able to reflect on that morality and strive toward perfection--like God.

When I say atheism has no moral foundation, that's based on the idea that atheism is true. It's not true. Therefore, you will find the same potential for moral behavior in atheists as you do in theists. If it were true there would be no morality. Having said that, atheism does deteriorate the character over time, because it doesn't strive to reflect on or perfect morality, or at least it has no reason to. And for lack of reason, the resolve will disolve.
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12-04-2012, 05:26 PM
RE: Animal morality
Some may find the experiment shown at 12:30 very funny. I read the paper on the experiment, but it's much funnier to see what happened.
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12-04-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: Animal morality
I didn't get the magazine today for I forgot and had birthday shopping to do. But tomorrow is another day.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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12-04-2012, 06:12 PM
RE: Animal morality
(12-04-2012 05:03 PM)Egor Wrote:  My dog has morality. So what? God gives us all the morality we need to survive. With humans we are able to reflect on that morality and strive toward perfection--like God.

When I say atheism has no moral foundation, that's based on the idea that atheism is true. It's not true. Therefore, you will find the same potential for moral behavior in atheists as you do in theists. If it were true there would be no morality. Having said that, atheism does deteriorate the character over time, because it doesn't strive to reflect on or perfect morality, or at least it has no reason to. And for lack of reason, the resolve will disolve.
(12-04-2012 05:03 PM)Egor Wrote:  How could a "perfect" morality ever be proven, in rational terms, based on experience. other than by coercion?
(12-04-2012 05:03 PM)Egor Wrote:  A god beyond judgement cannot be deemed a god, in accordance with our ability to perceive of things. The highest imaginable "perfect state" could be questioned on the basis of one dissenter, in keeping with the general thrust of most Christian doctrine.
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23-04-2012, 06:37 AM
RE: Animal morality
What the fuck are you doing!?!?


Cat didn't even turn around, he just screwed. Had his head in the roasting pan from last night's ham, he knew he was fucking up. Big Grin

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