Anniversary of 9-11
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11-09-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
I and I, you take one fact, in Afghanistan the US supported al-qaeda. Combine that with the fact that many US actions since 9-11 have benefited al-qaeda and conflate that to suggest that somehow al-qaeda and the US are working in concert. This is stupid and it is an idea you must remove from your head as it clouds your thoughts and turns you away from the real facts.

The shame of the US governments actions post 9-11 is the extent to which they have reinforced al-qaeda while ostensibly trying to thwart them. Conscious decisions have been made that had the opposite effect of what they intended. That is the real issue. There is no evidence no matter how hard you try to suggest it that the US and al-qaeda are working together. The evidence that US geo-political moves in the mid east have been exceedingly wrong exists, not that the US is in fact supporting al-qaeda. By offering up this strange (at best, delusional more likely) conspiracy you deflect your own mind and others from fact. Lose it.
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11-09-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
(11-09-2013 11:58 AM)JAH Wrote:  I and I, you take one fact, in Afghanistan the US supported al-qaeda. Combine that with the fact that many US actions since 9-11 have benefited al-qaeda and conflate that to suggest that somehow al-qaeda and the US are working in concert. This is stupid and it is an idea you must remove from your head as it clouds your thoughts and turns you away from the real facts.

The shame of the US governments actions post 9-11 is the extent to which they have reinforced al-qaeda while ostensibly trying to thwart them. Conscious decisions have been made that had the opposite effect of what they intended. That is the real issue. There is no evidence no matter how hard you try to suggest it that the US and al-qaeda are working together. The evidence that US geo-political moves in the mid east have been exceedingly wrong exists, not that the US is in fact supporting al-qaeda. By offering up this strange (at best, delusional more likely) conspiracy you deflect your own mind and others from fact. Lose it.

When did the US stop funding and using alqaeda? We both agree that at one point the US did arm and fund them, do you have any idea fact or guesses when the US stopped doing this? Do you deny that the US worked with alqaeda affiliate KLA (kosovo liberation army) in the 90's? This is not even denied anymore by most western sources. Mainstream news reported on US negotiations with alqaeda war lords in afghanistan and Iraq.
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11-09-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
(11-09-2013 12:04 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 11:58 AM)JAH Wrote:  I and I, you take one fact, in Afghanistan the US supported al-qaeda. Combine that with the fact that many US actions since 9-11 have benefited al-qaeda and conflate that to suggest that somehow al-qaeda and the US are working in concert. This is stupid and it is an idea you must remove from your head as it clouds your thoughts and turns you away from the real facts.

The shame of the US governments actions post 9-11 is the extent to which they have reinforced al-qaeda while ostensibly trying to thwart them. Conscious decisions have been made that had the opposite effect of what they intended. That is the real issue. There is no evidence no matter how hard you try to suggest it that the US and al-qaeda are working together. The evidence that US geo-political moves in the mid east have been exceedingly wrong exists, not that the US is in fact supporting al-qaeda. By offering up this strange (at best, delusional more likely) conspiracy you deflect your own mind and others from fact. Lose it.

When did the US stop funding and using alqaeda? We both agree that at one point the US did arm and fund them, do you have any idea fact or guesses when the US stopped doing this? Do you deny that the US worked with alqaeda affiliate KLA (kosovo liberation army) in the 90's? This is not even denied anymore by most western sources. Mainstream news reported on US negotiations with alqaeda war lords in afghanistan and Iraq.

You show me evidence that they continued to fund them after afghanistan. Your indirectly stating that they didn't. You are so sure of this. So prove it.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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11-09-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11



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11-09-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
Oh, it's an IanI thread? Time for secret hidden cock powers!



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11-09-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
(11-09-2013 01:35 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 12:04 PM)I and I Wrote:  When did the US stop funding and using alqaeda? We both agree that at one point the US did arm and fund them, do you have any idea fact or guesses when the US stopped doing this? Do you deny that the US worked with alqaeda affiliate KLA (kosovo liberation army) in the 90's? This is not even denied anymore by most western sources. Mainstream news reported on US negotiations with alqaeda war lords in afghanistan and Iraq.

You show me evidence that they continued to fund them after afghanistan. Your indirectly stating that they didn't. You are so sure of this. So prove it.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/s...o-911.html

Extensive coverage of US funding and arming Alqaeda from the beginning (which me and you agree) is also covered in this link, along with further US adventures with alqaeda including chechnya and bosnia. This document has quotes and cites government and news sources. If you want further evidence for the claims made here let me know which specific ones.

http://real-agenda.com/2013/05/10/al-qae...1JeLo.dpbs

Btw do you also agree that the US helped alqaeda in Libya and Syria?
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11-09-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
I and I, you ask if I can provide concrete facts that the US no longer supports al-qaeda in a direct fashion. I cannot, neither can you provide facts that the US directly supports al-qaeda. I will allow that the US indirectly supports al-qaeda in that it indirectly supports the Syrian "rebels". This is very much beside the fact and points to your weird and delusional thinking.

US actions for some 15 years in the mid east have furthered al-qaeda agendas and is not open to debate, it is clearly correct. That those actions are consciously intended to do so is very much open to debate.

The above statements are immaterial. What is material is that the US has fucked up in very many ways in its dealing with the islamic countries. The need to find conspiracy and duplicity in the US actions is at best counterproductive. If one removes oneself from the idea of conspiracy and approaches US actions from the point of view of imperialism and hubris one will get a better understanding of US actions in the mid east.

I must also defend Democracy Now. They may not be perfect but with the possible exception of Al Jazeera America they are one of the best at reporting on the mid east. I would point out for example that the clip intended to prove that they cheer leaded the over throw of Gaddafi was very measured in its reporting.
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11-09-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
(11-09-2013 02:47 PM)JAH Wrote:  I and I, you ask if I can provide concrete facts that the US no longer supports al-qaeda in a direct fashion. I cannot, neither can you provide facts that the US directly supports al-qaeda. I will allow that the US indirectly supports al-qaeda in that it indirectly supports the Syrian "rebels". This is very much beside the fact and points to your weird and delusional thinking.

US actions for some 15 years in the mid east have furthered al-qaeda agendas and is not open to debate, it is clearly correct. That those actions are consciously intended to do so is very much open to debate.

The above statements are immaterial. What is material is that the US has fucked up in very many ways in its dealing with the islamic countries. The need to find conspiracy and duplicity in the US actions is at best counterproductive. If one removes oneself from the idea of conspiracy and approaches US actions from the point of view of imperialism and hubris one will get a better understanding of US actions in the mid east.

I must also defend Democracy Now. They may not be perfect but with the possible exception of Al Jazeera America they are one of the best at reporting on the mid east. I would point out for example that the clip intended to prove that they cheer leaded the over throw of Gaddafi was very measured in its reporting.

Nato was the air force for alqaeda ground troops in Libya and this air support was the key in unseating Gaddafi. In the case of Libya, that is direct help to alqaeda.

So your position is that the US has helped alqaeda in former Yugoslavia, chechnya, Iraq, Libya and Syria by accident? The US funded radical alqaeda affiliates on multiple occasions for 3 decades by accident? That is a long and repeating coincidence.

Not only that, I am asking for evidence that the US and alqaeda are enemies, what actions have these two groups taken to show that they don't like each other? The countless drone strikes mostly kill civilians.
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11-09-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
hey I&I, instead of trying to prove that the US is evil or something irrelevant like that, why don't you get involved in actual political activism and add something to at least try to make things right?

the wars the US has been involved lately are shameful and has nothing to do with fairness, freedom or any other positive cause or ideal, that's known, that obvious for anyone who doesn't pray to FOX news every night. But you won't do anything about it by looking like a conspiranoid asshole.

Go out, join some worthy NGO or something like that, and actually push in the right direction, even if all your weird ideas are true, even if you manage to find some incontrovertible proof that 9/11 was an inside job or something like that, nothing will change, the inertia is just too strong... and your attitude only makes people more secure in their apathy towards their government.

Truth is irrelevant by itself, it must have a purpose, right now your quest for truth is pointless.

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11-09-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: Anniversary of 9-11
(11-09-2013 03:22 PM)nach_in Wrote:  hey I&I, instead of trying to prove that the US is evil or something irrelevant like that, why don't you get involved in actual political activism and add something to at least try to make things right?

the wars the US has been involved lately are shameful and has nothing to do with fairness, freedom or any other positive cause or ideal, that's known, that obvious for anyone who doesn't pray to FOX news every night. But you won't do anything about it by looking like a conspiranoid asshole.

Go out, join some worthy NGO or something like that, and actually push in the right direction, even if all your weird ideas are true, even if you manage to find some incontrovertible proof that 9/11 was an inside job or something like that, nothing will change, the inertia is just too strong... and your attitude only makes people more secure in their apathy towards their government.

Truth is irrelevant by itself, it must have a purpose, right now your quest for truth is pointless.

I agree, I started a thread about belief and fact in the philosophy forum. What is an NGO and what do they do? Drinking Beverage
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