Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
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28-02-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(28-02-2016 11:41 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 11:12 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Facepalm
That's a solid argument right there. You convinced me! Thumbsup

It was all you deserved. Big Grin

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28-02-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(28-02-2016 11:39 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 10:58 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Right, you listen to what they have to say and assess whether they are right or not. Sounds fair.

Harvard concluded that they weren't right (they're not) but still bent over.

So they weren't awarded because their position was meritable; they were awarded because to tell them they're wrong would be politically incorrect.

Do you have evidence that they "bent over", like statements from the voting body that they disagreed with the students' request but still gave them their way?

Harvard did not state "they weren't right", what they stated was, "Harvard has not agreed that the use of "master" represented a link to slavery, but it has accepted campaigners' calls for a name change." That is not stating they were wrong but bent over to appease them. That statement only states they disagreed on the meaning of ""master" as a link to slavery"", it does not state they disagreed that it should change. The fact that they changed it shows they did agree it should change, just without admitting any liability of what it was or perceived to be before.

Are you seriously going to take contention with the phrasing 'bent over' and the language 'not right' because it's not verbatim?

The campaigners reasoning for change was that the word has a connotation of slavery.

Harvard rejected the premise that it has a connotation of slavery, but accepted the proposed change, anyway.

The language I used was not misleading of the facts. Your contention is petty.
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28-02-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(28-02-2016 11:50 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 11:39 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Do you have evidence that they "bent over", like statements from the voting body that they disagreed with the students' request but still gave them their way?

Harvard did not state "they weren't right", what they stated was, "Harvard has not agreed that the use of "master" represented a link to slavery, but it has accepted campaigners' calls for a name change." That is not stating they were wrong but bent over to appease them. That statement only states they disagreed on the meaning of ""master" as a link to slavery"", it does not state they disagreed that it should change. The fact that they changed it shows they did agree it should change, just without admitting any liability of what it was or perceived to be before.

Are you seriously going to take contention with the phrasing 'bent over' and the language 'not right' because it's not verbatim?

The campaigners reasoning for change was that the word has a connotation of slavery.

Harvard rejected the premise that it has a connotation of slavery, but accepted the proposed change, anyway.

The language I used was not misleading of the facts. Your contention is petty.

So... no.

Your perception (read personal bias) is not the basis of a viable conclusion.

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28-02-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(28-02-2016 11:44 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  It was all you deserved. Big Grin
You have no argument then? Thanks for playing, you lose. Drinking Beverage

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28-02-2016, 12:06 PM
Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
They should change the name "master" to " massa".
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28-02-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
They should change the name from Master to Dark Lord.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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29-02-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(28-02-2016 11:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 10:57 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Should you, as a student, be able to dictate what you do and don't listen to?

How do you, as a student, have the knowledge to determine which lesson is important and which isn't?

Perhaps they should demand that fruit juice be called "fruit pressings" instead, because "fruit juice" sounds anti-Semitic?

This makes no sense.

Here, let me put it this way: if the university didn't agree with the students, they wouldn't have made the change. You're assuming that the students aren't discussing this with their professors and are simply taking matters into their own hands.

Students always dictate what they are being taught, because professors (the good ones) design their classes and lectures around the needs of the students as a whole. If students don't want a class on a given subject, they don't take it and that class will eventually be gotten rid of because the demand isn't there (this is not likely to happen with core courses but advanced classes on specific subjects come and go all the time).

These are NOT students dictating how the university operates, or the day to day workings, or even anything that even remotely impacts their education.

This is not "PC madness," it's people who don't understand what political correctness is assuming that change to appease people is about PC.

How is comparing a slave master to a "house master" simply because they use the same word in different contexts sensible?

Let me rephrase my question, if it please the court: should we abolish the term "master of ceremonies" because "master" has in one context the connotations associated with slavery?

Decontextualizing language in order to further an agenda is almost certainly PC-run-amok. If Harvard was using the term "master" in order to foster a master-servant relationship, this complaint would be valid.

I wonder how many of these students sing along with rap tunes featuring the word "nigger", which was the favorite epithet of the masters? The fact that they are happy to decontextualize one term, while appealing to context in defense of the other, is a sure sign that this is not a matter of a word being offensive, but rather, a set of people bent on being offended.
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29-02-2016, 01:10 AM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2016 01:14 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(28-02-2016 11:11 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  If they choose to support those requested changes who are you to tell them they shouldn't?

I have my opinion on matters. Who are you to object to my speaking it? We're having a public discussion. I am part of the public. That's who I am.

Don't like it? Oh well.
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29-02-2016, 01:23 AM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
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29-02-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Another Example of the Insanity of PC Culture
(29-02-2016 01:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 11:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This makes no sense.

Here, let me put it this way: if the university didn't agree with the students, they wouldn't have made the change. You're assuming that the students aren't discussing this with their professors and are simply taking matters into their own hands.

Students always dictate what they are being taught, because professors (the good ones) design their classes and lectures around the needs of the students as a whole. If students don't want a class on a given subject, they don't take it and that class will eventually be gotten rid of because the demand isn't there (this is not likely to happen with core courses but advanced classes on specific subjects come and go all the time).

These are NOT students dictating how the university operates, or the day to day workings, or even anything that even remotely impacts their education.

This is not "PC madness," it's people who don't understand what political correctness is assuming that change to appease people is about PC.

How is comparing a slave master to a "house master" simply because they use the same word in different contexts sensible?

Let me rephrase my question, if it please the court: should we abolish the term "master of ceremonies" because "master" has in one context the connotations associated with slavery?

Decontextualizing language in order to further an agenda is almost certainly PC-run-amok. If Harvard was using the term "master" in order to foster a master-servant relationship, this complaint would be valid.

I wonder how many of these students sing along with rap tunes featuring the word "nigger", which was the favorite epithet of the masters? The fact that they are happy to decontextualize one term, while appealing to context in defense of the other, is a sure sign that this is not a matter of a word being offensive, but rather, a set of people bent on being offended.

Once again, you're assuming that only the students dictated this change, that isn't and couldn't be true.

It isn't a matter of "de-contextualizing" language but of opening up a dialogue on an issue (race relations) and using an example of change to open up that dialogue to a wider audience (changing the labels attached to positions within the university). As they said, they didn't remove "Master" from an MS or MA degree, because, as they say, the word "master" has never had anything to do with slavery at Harvard. Ergo, they didn't change it because of slavery or racist connotations, but because they listened to their students and agreed that a change to a title that is itself, meaningless, can have meaning if it comes attached to a meaningful conversation.

You should stop with the knee-jerk reactions that change to appease people is just "PC run amok."

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