Another High School shooter
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08-03-2018, 08:22 AM
RE: Another High School shooter
I've barely glanced at this thread and have no intention of reading 100 pages of what I'm assuming is the same bullshit as always, so if this has already been mentioned I apologize...

I've been watching some of these videos people are posting and I feel the need to put this out for well intentioned but ultimately naive people. If you're going to get a rifle, not learn how the thing functions, then make a video of yourself destroying it, make sure you're actually destroying it. If you cut off the barrel but leave the rest intact, you just committed a felony and then posted the evidence online.

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09-03-2018, 04:38 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
Honest question, interested to know how it's a felony?

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09-03-2018, 05:24 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
(09-03-2018 04:38 PM)Gruntsky Wrote:  Honest question, interested to know how it's a felony?

An AR15 must have a barrel 16 inches minimum.

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09-03-2018, 05:44 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
Thanks Grim

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You can't milk a cow for 2000 years...
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09-03-2018, 06:37 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
(09-03-2018 05:24 PM)Grim Wrote:  
(09-03-2018 04:38 PM)Gruntsky Wrote:  Honest question, interested to know how it's a felony?

An AR15 must have a barrel 16 inches minimum.

Um ...

No.

A RIFLE must have a barrel of over 16 inches.


And if you took a 20 inch barrel AR15 and cut it down to under 16 inches, you would no longer have a semi- auto rifle. You would have a straight pull bolt action pistol.

But that still would be illegal.

....

I'm a double atheist. I don't believe in your god or your politician.
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09-03-2018, 07:26 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
Information is useful!
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09-03-2018, 07:35 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
(09-03-2018 06:37 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(09-03-2018 05:24 PM)Grim Wrote:  An AR15 must have a barrel 16 inches minimum.

Um ...

No.

A RIFLE must have a barrel of over 16 inches.


And if you took a 20 inch barrel AR15 and cut it down to under 16 inches, you would no longer have a semi- auto rifle. You would have a straight pull bolt action pistol.

But that still would be illegal.

I believe it would be an SBR (short-barreled rifle), not a pistol.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-03-2018, 10:14 AM
RE: Another High School shooter
morondog Wrote:The reasons I was convinced was not just the simulation, you twit. It was helpful to have the actors there. If you actually read my post instead of getting a red mist in front of your eyes you'd notice that I commented that for that part I wished they'd used an actual experienced guy as the "good guy with a gun".

The simulation was interesting because firstly it showed how the confined spaces of a school would make responding difficult, what different people the "good guy" is likely to encounter on campus and how difficult it would be not only to counter the shooter but even to identify them.

Downgrading the video to “interesting” and “helpful” is a good move. Pardon me for not noticing your disclaimer, it was buried between fairly assertive and definitive statements:

Quote:And the school shooting simulation too, showing how difficult it would be - even though he was the designated "good guy with a gun" he got taken out by the cops by mistake. It would have been nice if they could have done that bit all with trained guys to show exactly how difficult it would be. It pretty much immediately exposes the armed teacher thing as dangerous wishful thinking, for me at least.

Watching a Jerry Lewis parody of an armed teacher tells us nothing. The video is propaganda as much as an NRA video showing the opposite would be. Of course I know your opinions on the matter aren't formed by just that simulation. But it deserved a quick kick in the balls.

It is true that (video unneeded), as you say, “ the confined spaces of a school would make responding difficult, what different people the "good guy" is likely to encounter on campus and how difficult it would be not only to counter the shooter but even to identify them.” Difficult indeed; those difficulties and risks can be lessened but never eliminated. We differ on whether the risk is worth it.

And regarding the confined spaces, “good guy with a gun” is a bad idea at a crowded open area like a concert or a shopping mall. I'm surprised the Las Vegas incident didn't have a bunch of casualties from people shooting each other. In a school lock down situation, yes there is total chaos but in general students flee the halls into rooms, it is then the shooter's initiative to walk the hall from room to room. No one is fleeing into the hall. I think that's somewhat predictable from the perspective of the teacher who may be armed and has training. Apparently Cruz's gun either jammed and he didn't know how to unjam it or he just decided to quit shooting. He could have walked the halls and unloaded into plenty more full rooms, at what number of deaths would we do the calculation and think, “at that point it may have been worth the risk to have an armed teacher confront that guy in the hall”?

morondog Wrote:Are you seriously arguing that a teacher who's looking for a shooter, possibly a student, is going to be able to react fast enough to the actual shooter, without accidentally injuring or killing other students, and be able to do that consistently enough that it's worth arming them?

Yes. And I'm also willing to accept that there might be accidental injuring or killing of other students. A shooter confronted by an armed teacher, even if there is a messy and ineffective exchange, and neither gets hit but bystanders do, at least there is an interruption to the shooter just walking the halls targeting classrooms. By the way, I'm just making cold blooded calculations here about viability of armed teacher programs, it doesn't mean I don't prefer other options, I just don't think as a society we're going to do any of them. Maybe there will be more armed security personnel on campuses; they're great at "locking down the perimeter." Facepalm

Quote:But hey, fuck yeah, arm the teachers. And this video was clearly made by someone with an AGENDA!!!!! Rolleyes

Dodgy

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10-03-2018, 10:48 AM
RE: Another High School shooter
The wife and I had a long discussion about guns last night. We were watching CNN last night and they were discussing the latest shooting at the Veterans home in CA. 3 Dead and shooter killed himself.

It kind of hit us both last night. It can happen anytime. Anywhere. Work. The mall. The grocery store. The doctors office. There are sick people out there. Since there's no chance anytime soon of a total ban and confiscation, we have no choice but to arm ourselves full time. There are so many guns, so many potential killers. I'd rather have a fighting chance. The guns aren't going away. This latest shooting happened in CA, where its next to impossible to get a permit to carry for personal defense. The criminals won't follow the laws. Everyone should have the right to protect themselves. It's sad its come to this but it has.

We've decided that we won't be putting our kids into school. We will homeschool. We'll use daycare facilities that are secure with high brick fences and locked doors where people have to be buzzed in. We're going to move. We're thinking Texas. Where its very easy to get a concealed gun permit and the law is on the side of the armed citizen. Our lease is up in November. We're out of California for good. The laws here favor the criminals.

We didn't come to this decision easily. Some feel good gun legislation banning bump stocks or raising the limit to purchase a gun to 21 doesn't really accomplish anything. Most of these mass shooters are older than 21. Those poor women last night. No way to defend themselves. Locked in a room with a madman. I hope that if my wife were ever in that situation, she could at least have a chance to take the guy out.

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10-03-2018, 12:26 PM
RE: Another High School shooter
(10-03-2018 10:48 AM)Grim Wrote:  The wife and I had a long discussion about guns last night. We were watching CNN last night and they were discussing the latest shooting at the Veterans home in CA. 3 Dead and shooter killed himself.

It kind of hit us both last night. It can happen anytime. Anywhere. Work. The mall. The grocery store. The doctors office. There are sick people out there. Since there's no chance anytime soon of a total ban and confiscation, we have no choice but to arm ourselves full time. There are so many guns, so many potential killers. I'd rather have a fighting chance. The guns aren't going away. This latest shooting happened in CA, where its next to impossible to get a permit to carry for personal defense. The criminals won't follow the laws. Everyone should have the right to protect themselves. It's sad its come to this but it has.

We've decided that we won't be putting our kids into school. We will homeschool. We'll use daycare facilities that are secure with high brick fences and locked doors where people have to be buzzed in. We're going to move. We're thinking Texas. Where its very easy to get a concealed gun permit and the law is on the side of the armed citizen. Our lease is up in November. We're out of California for good. The laws here favor the criminals.

We didn't come to this decision easily. Some feel good gun legislation banning bump stocks or raising the limit to purchase a gun to 21 doesn't really accomplish anything. Most of these mass shooters are older than 21. Those poor women last night. No way to defend themselves. Locked in a room with a madman. I hope that if my wife were ever in that situation, she could at least have a chance to take the guy out.

Reminds me of that famous quote from Thoreau, "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things."

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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