Another argument
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13-05-2015, 09:52 PM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2015 10:01 PM by Shadow Fox.)
Another argument
I thought I might post this. This is a rebut to a few points I pointed out to someone online.

I thought a lot of you might find the humor in it lol.


Quote: I'm sorry your unable to comprehend what I posted, if you could you would see what I posted were not my words but words of God... When you said - "Say What You Want" - remember, I'm just the messenger, God said it. The big problem we have here is, do you trust history? do you trust ancient text? Because one can't hardly say that, of all the ancient text we have around the world concerning many things, one can't hardly put the breaks on when we come to the Greek and Hebrew text written about God. In fact there are more ancient text teaching about God then most all other topics combined. So if your against history great but don't limit you knowledge because you hate God...

I can throw every single question you ask right back at cha. The difference is, I know the answers to the questions you ask... All of the atrocities written in the Bible that talk about murder, rape, and slaves to mention a few, you just like the guy in this video "sadly" know nothing of what your talking about. But your not alone as you pointed out there are over 30,000 thousand groups (in America alone) all teaching a different gospel yet "all" claiming to be christian.
I can understand your frustration and confusion and would agree with you that something is wrong. I too asked the many questions you have. I too was once what people call "Christian". I don't refer to myself as christian any longer simply because of this fact that their are thousands that call themselves christian, and I don't want to be in that group, (there all lost)...

There are some fundamentals one must examine before they get all rapped up in Bible discussions or study.

Can one actually prove the Bible? This is a huge question! Just as most never seek to prove the existence of God, most never concern themselves with proving the authority of the Bible. They either have no interest in such proof or they assume there is none—that it cannot be done!

Have you taken the time to seek actual, tangible proof of the Bible’s authority? As with the existence of God, have you been taught that you must accept it “on faith”? Most people are never challenged to find real proof that the Bible is the inspired record of a Supreme Being. Circumstances rarely force people to undertake such a task. This is probably the single biggest reason that most never do. When I went to church growing up, I was never required, nor felt compelled, to prove either that God exists or that He authored the Bible. Nor was any proof of these ever given or offered to me! And not one person ever suggested to me that I should even be concerned with proving the answers to these two looming questions.

Stop and think for a moment! Let’s apply basic logic.

What kind of God would write an Instruction Book about how to live, command that it be followed as His Word and then offer no proof that it is? It insults whoever is God to even believe Him capable of such inconsistency—and unfairness! On what basis would He—or even could He—require obedience to such an Instruction Book, if He left no proof that it was authentic?
The apostle Paul wrote in the Bible, speaking on behalf of the One who claims to have authored it, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (I Thes. 5:21). If God wrote the Bible, and He tells you to “Prove all things,” then surely He would not make proof of His authorship of the Bible an exception. It states, “ALL things.” In other words, would God require you to prove what the Bible teaches about all other points of doctrine or practice, but not expect you to prove whether an all-powerful God stands behind its authorship, requiring you to then obey it—adhere to its teachings? What sense would that make? God would never exempt from the need for proof (thus making them towering exceptions to this command) the questions of His own existence and His authorship of the Bible!
We must take this instruction at face value. If God says to “Prove all things,” and also, “Prove Me now herewith…” (Mal. 3:10), then He means it. And if God did not make the answers to these questions provable, He is setting Himself up to be discredited. On the other hand, if the Bible is the inspired Word of a great living God, then it is the standard by which you will be judged.

Seriously, this guy is...so damned confusing lol.

Basically I pointed out a few ways that Christianity is just a plagerism of other stuff before it and a few morally wrong things about it. Along with the no true scottsman fallacy.


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14-05-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Another argument
(13-05-2015 09:52 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I thought I might post this. This is a rebut to a few points I pointed out to someone online.

I thought a lot of you might find the humor in it lol.


Quote: I'm sorry your unable to comprehend what I posted, if you could you would see what I posted were not my words but words of God... When you said - "Say What You Want" - remember, I'm just the messenger, God said it. The big problem we have here is, do you trust history? do you trust ancient text? Because one can't hardly say that, of all the ancient text we have around the world concerning many things, one can't hardly put the breaks on when we come to the Greek and Hebrew text written about God. In fact there are more ancient text teaching about God then most all other topics combined. So if your against history great but don't limit you knowledge because you hate God...

I can throw every single question you ask right back at cha. The difference is, I know the answers to the questions you ask... All of the atrocities written in the Bible that talk about murder, rape, and slaves to mention a few, you just like the guy in this video "sadly" know nothing of what your talking about. But your not alone as you pointed out there are over 30,000 thousand groups (in America alone) all teaching a different gospel yet "all" claiming to be christian.
I can understand your frustration and confusion and would agree with you that something is wrong. I too asked the many questions you have. I too was once what people call "Christian". I don't refer to myself as christian any longer simply because of this fact that their are thousands that call themselves christian, and I don't want to be in that group, (there all lost)...

There are some fundamentals one must examine before they get all rapped up in Bible discussions or study.

Can one actually prove the Bible? This is a huge question! Just as most never seek to prove the existence of God, most never concern themselves with proving the authority of the Bible. They either have no interest in such proof or they assume there is none—that it cannot be done!

Have you taken the time to seek actual, tangible proof of the Bible’s authority? As with the existence of God, have you been taught that you must accept it “on faith”? Most people are never challenged to find real proof that the Bible is the inspired record of a Supreme Being. Circumstances rarely force people to undertake such a task. This is probably the single biggest reason that most never do. When I went to church growing up, I was never required, nor felt compelled, to prove either that God exists or that He authored the Bible. Nor was any proof of these ever given or offered to me! And not one person ever suggested to me that I should even be concerned with proving the answers to these two looming questions.

Stop and think for a moment! Let’s apply basic logic.

What kind of God would write an Instruction Book about how to live, command that it be followed as His Word and then offer no proof that it is? It insults whoever is God to even believe Him capable of such inconsistency—and unfairness! On what basis would He—or even could He—require obedience to such an Instruction Book, if He left no proof that it was authentic?
The apostle Paul wrote in the Bible, speaking on behalf of the One who claims to have authored it, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (I Thes. 5:21). If God wrote the Bible, and He tells you to “Prove all things,” then surely He would not make proof of His authorship of the Bible an exception. It states, “ALL things.” In other words, would God require you to prove what the Bible teaches about all other points of doctrine or practice, but not expect you to prove whether an all-powerful God stands behind its authorship, requiring you to then obey it—adhere to its teachings? What sense would that make? God would never exempt from the need for proof (thus making them towering exceptions to this command) the questions of His own existence and His authorship of the Bible!
We must take this instruction at face value. If God says to “Prove all things,” and also, “Prove Me now herewith…” (Mal. 3:10), then He means it. And if God did not make the answers to these questions provable, He is setting Himself up to be discredited. On the other hand, if the Bible is the inspired Word of a great living God, then it is the standard by which you will be judged.

Seriously, this guy is...so damned confusing lol.

Basically I pointed out a few ways that Christianity is just a plagerism of other stuff before it and a few morally wrong things about it. Along with the no true scottsman fallacy.

Here would be my exact reply:

You can't prove the existence of God from the Bible because first you would have to prove there is a God and then you would have to prove that this God inspired the Bible. The Bible can not be evidence for the truth of its own claims, not in reason.

Furthermore, the fact that existence has metaphysical primacy in the relationship between reality and consciousness absolutely proves the Bible is false in regard to claims of a supernatural being who created the universe through an act of conscious will. Period, end of story.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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15-05-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Another argument
Quote: I'm sorry your unable to comprehend what I posted, if you could you would see what I posted were not my words but words of God... When you said - "Say What You Want" - remember, I'm just the messenger, God said it.

Statements like this have always frustrated me even when I was a believer. People that say their speaking for God. Like talking on behalf of "God" is some sort of "Get Out of Jail Free Card". When you ask him to defend his clam and he can't then he can say he can't because "God Dun Tol Me.".

If I couldn't comprehend your post and your talking on behalf of "God" then "God" is a Gibbering IDIOT!

He then throws his hands up "I'm just the messenger!" As if it's suppose to solidify his clam. Essentially saying "Hey, don't get angry at me! The boss upstairs wanted this done so i'm just following threw." Why didn't the boss send me a memo? Maybe if my question are to hard for you then he could answer them.

Quote: The big problem we have here is, do you trust history? do you trust ancient text?

Trust history? I want to jump threw the computer screen at this guy.

Having a understanding about human nature, and knowing that mistakes can be made. Dose not mean I what we collect is the 100% truth. So in that sense no i don't trust history. But when you have a collection of information, many different sources, all pointing to the same point then it's hard to refute.

Statues from the time, records, war events, coins, a body.
I have no choice then to accept that Julius Caesar existed.

Quote: Because one can't hardly say that, of all the ancient text we have around the world concerning many things, one can't hardly put the breaks on when we come to the Greek and Hebrew text written about God. In fact there are more ancient text teaching about God then most all other topics combined. So if your against history great but don't limit you knowledge because you hate God...

*Sniff* *Sniff* What's that smell? *Sniff* Oh. This guys full of shit!

I would argue that there have been more ancient texts written about Shivea, Krishna or Lakshimi. Hinduism has been around since 4000 BCE. Judaism was established around 1485 BCE? (Fact check me)

But that doesn't make them any more true.

I just want to punch him in the mouth.

It is true If God was real i'd probably would hate him. But In my eyes he's the same as Lord Voldemort or the Hamburglar. I can't hate what isn't there. I act the same way when arguing over the latest Marvel movie, or latest reboot of a childhood memory.

Wolverine almost killed the Hulk by stabbing him in the neck.

In a fight between Vultron or Megatron who would win? I hope Vultron. Megatron is a dick.

All fictional characters, and eve thou i may get emotional about them doesn't mean they're real.

My feelings for the character dose not mean I HATE it.

Quote: I can throw every single question you ask right back at cha. The difference is, I know the answers to the questions you ask...

LaughatX a million

Quote: All of the atrocities written in the Bible that talk about murder, rape, and slaves to mention a few,..[SNIP]...But your not alone as you pointed out there are over 30,000 thousand groups (in America alone) all teaching a different gospel yet "all" claiming to be christian.

As if he's some sort of divine prophet. Why didn't he send you something profound? Something that could be tested or something that has always eluded us for so long. Like a formula for the origins of the universe, telling us how to capture dark matter or deciphering the Voynich Manuscript. No it's always the same God Damn thing. "He wants you to love one another." "Don't Rape." "Don't Kill." Ok got it give us something new.

Quote:I can understand your frustration and confusion and would agree with you that something is wrong. I too asked the many questions you have.

I doubt it. Otherwise you'd be an atheist too.

Quote: I too was once what people call "Christian". I don't refer to myself as christian any longer simply because of this fact that their are thousands that call themselves christian, and I don't want to be in that group, (there all lost)...

Again putting himself as a divine prophet. It's cute how he's trying to relate to you, then goes right back around proclaiming he knows everything.

Quote: Can one actually prove the Bible? This is a huge question! Just as most never seek to prove the existence of God, most never concern themselves with proving the authority of the Bible. They either have no interest in such proof or they assume there is none—that it cannot be done!

*sniff* There's that smell again.

Quote: Have you taken the time to seek actual, tangible proof of the Bible’s authority?

Yes. 33+ years.

Quote: As with the existence of God, have you been taught that you must accept it “on faith”?

Yes. And only faith. Don't go fact checking. Just accept.

Quote: Most people are never challenged to find real proof that the Bible is the inspired record of a Supreme Being. Circumstances rarely force people to undertake such a task. This is probably the single biggest reason that most never do. When I went to church growing up, I was never required, nor felt compelled, to prove either that God exists or that He authored the Bible. Nor was any proof of these ever given or offered to me! And not one person ever suggested to me that I should even be concerned with proving the answers to these two looming questions.

Again this fustrates me. I had this mind set for a time. Like I knew something that other people didn't The God I "knew" would never lie to me.

I wouldn't really call them Looming questions. They were rather easy to answer. And not threatening in the least.

Quote: Stop and think for a moment! Let’s apply basic logic.

It's what I do best. I am the Common Sensei after all.

Quote: What kind of God would write an Instruction Book about how to live, command that it be followed as His Word and then offer no proof that it is? It insults whoever is God to even believe Him capable of such inconsistency—and unfairness! On what basis would He—or even could He—require obedience to such an Instruction Book, if He left no proof that it was authentic?

The better question would be, What kind of god would write an instruction book?

We're not arguing over if trees exist, or if we need to eat to survive. Instead we're arguing over being that he hasn't defined. But is very vigours comeing to conclutions on it. And that this Author has the complete and profound knowedge of this being.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Carl Sagan

Quote:The apostle Paul wrote in the Bible, speaking on behalf of the One who claims to have authored it, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (I Thes. 5:21). If God wrote the Bible, and He tells you to “Prove all things,” then surely He would not make proof of His authorship of the Bible an exception. It states, “ALL things.” In other words, would God require you to prove what the Bible teaches about all other points of doctrine or practice, but not expect you to prove whether an all-powerful God stands behind its authorship, requiring you to then obey it—adhere to its teachings? What sense would that make? God would never exempt from the need for proof (thus making them towering exceptions to this command) the questions of His own existence and His authorship of the Bible!
We must take this instruction at face value. If God says to “Prove all things,” and also, “Prove Me now herewith…” (Mal. 3:10), then He means it. And if God did not make the answers to these questions provable, He is setting Himself up to be discredited. On the other hand, if the Bible is the inspired Word of a great living God, then it is the standard by which you will be judged.

And we lost him. Just a mess of incoherent bible verse's and ridiculous questions.

Conclusion this guy wants us to think he knows something/everything. But provides no evidence for anything he said.

When i stepped out of Catholicism I still called myself a Catholic. Not only because I still believed in the bible i was raised on. But because I thought religion was marked on you, like ones skin color, or calling yourself a Germany even thou you weren't born or raised in that country. When I became an Agnostic Theist, i didn't adhere to the bible. I looked for answers from the god I thought I knew. The god that I created.
If your using a christian bible as the source, then that doesn't make you Hindu. Your still adhering to the christian god. If your clamming that you know "god" and what it is thinking then you don't get to use the bible. The bases for your assertion would have to be backed up with your own evidence. And SURPRISE SURPRISE you don't have any.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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