Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
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03-10-2017, 01:30 AM
Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
Well,

today, its July, 4th here in Germany Big Grin
So, yay, Germany! [Image: deutschlfahne8.gif]

Part of the show are TV channels running our history all day long. I am watching WWII at the moment and the oath of the german soldiers was mentioned.
So i went and googled a bit.....looks like evey single branch of officials who had to swear, had to swear "by god"! Interesting isnt it?
So, next time a theist argues that nazi germany was atheist, you may ask them why everybody had to swear "by god", even the SS!

Hitler Oath

Wehrmacht Wrote:I swear to God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German Empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath.

civil servants Wrote:I swear: I will be faithful and obedient to the leader of the German Empire and people, Adolf Hitler, to observe the law, and to conscientiously fulfill my official duties, so help me God.

SS Wrote:Wie lautet Dein Eid?“ – „Ich schwöre Dir, Adolf Hitler, als Führer und Kanzler des Deutschen Reiches Treue und Tapferkeit. Wir geloben Dir und den von Dir bestimmten Vorgesetzten Gehorsam bis in den Tod. So wahr mir Gott helfe!

„Also glaubst Du an einen Gott?“ – „Ja, ich glaube an einen Herrgott.“

„Was hältst Du von einem Menschen, der nicht an einen Gott glaubt?“

Die Antwort lautet: „Ich halte ihn für überheblich, größenwahnsinnig und dumm; er ist nicht für uns geeignet.

Translation:
"What is your oath?"
"I swear to you, Adolf Hitler, as leader and chancellor of the German Reich loyalty and bravery. We vow obedience to death to you and to the leaders determined by you. So help me god "
"So you do believe in a god" -"Yes, i believe in a lord"
"What do you think about a man who does not believe in a god?"
"I think he is arrogant, megalomaniac and stupid. He is not suited for us (SS)"

So, even if the nazis themselves werent theists and just wanted to make "good use" of the gull religiosity of the people, then it was this gullibility religiosity which is to blame for the blind obedience.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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03-10-2017, 01:36 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
One need only look at uniforms and markings.

[Image: 9225103_4.jpg?v=8CC68211817F4F0]

[Image: 3a9b3977d25d6b903b23ad83c5293c8c.jpg]

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03-10-2017, 01:49 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
Wow, they actually swore personal loyalty to Adolf Hitler? That's hectic...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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03-10-2017, 01:53 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
Happy Reunification Day.

I was in Berlin on the 20th Anniversary of Reunification - it was a great day to be there.

I think that the evidence that Nazism was NOT an atheist ideology is there for all to see. It sought and was given active support by the majority of Roman Catholic and protestant clergy.

The personal religious views of the Nazi leadership is an interesting and complex area of debate, but there is no doubt that the NSDAP and its organs of state were very definitely NOT atheist and anyone who suggest otherwise is being dishonest.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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03-10-2017, 02:19 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
(03-10-2017 01:49 AM)morondog Wrote:  Wow, they actually swore personal loyalty to Adolf Hitler? That's hectic...

Yeah. In some ways the soldiers were duped. There is a theory much of the problem was that the military high command wanted re-armament after the dreadful end of world war I and it's affect upon German pride. Many citizens and much of the military was unaware Germany actually lost. The government fostered this feeling after the conflict. Likely in an effort to avoid any blame.

After the Ottoman empire fell and America joined, Germany simply couldn't continue. That's the short part of the long and short of it. Smile

Fascinating subject that has kept me studying for 49 years. I'm still learning new things.

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03-10-2017, 02:25 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
(03-10-2017 01:30 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  So, next time a theist argues that nazi germany was atheist, you may ask them why everybody had to swear "by god", even the SS!

Next time theist will say that Reich was atheist regime I will just laugh at ignorance of this particular clown. Rosenberg didn't liked the church sure, but Himmler for example just wanted to create another religion.

Quote:So, even if the nazis themselves werent theists and just wanted to make "good use" of the gull religiosity of the people, then it was this gullibility religiosity which is to blame for the blind obedience.

They were though, even if of different than mainstream stripe (gottglaubig and Himmler nonsense). But even if nazis were unbelievers then they rose to power in christian country. Theists just can't lie out of this one.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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03-10-2017, 02:42 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
(03-10-2017 02:19 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(03-10-2017 01:49 AM)morondog Wrote:  Wow, they actually swore personal loyalty to Adolf Hitler? That's hectic...

Yeah. In some ways the soldiers were duped. There is a theory much of the problem was that the military high command wanted re-armament after the dreadful end of world war I and it's affect upon German pride. Many citizens and much of the military was unaware Germany actually lost. The government fostered this feeling after the conflict. Likely in an effort to avoid any blame.

Sooner than theory I would call this cold, hard fact. German pride was affected and military command as military commands are wont to do wanted rearmament (hence treaties with Russia about testing equipment there).

I would say however that military knew that it lost, just wanted someone to take blame for it's own failures. In militarized culture civilian gov was perfect scapegoat. Civilians thanks to propaganda could been thinking that they were on verge of victory though, on this we agree.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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03-10-2017, 02:50 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
I should specify. I don't mean the Military as one whole. I am referring to individual soldiers within the ranks.

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03-10-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
(03-10-2017 02:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I should specify. I don't mean the Military as one whole. I am referring to individual soldiers within the ranks.

Wikipedia claims that Although German armies were still on enemy soil as the war ended, the generals, the civilian leadership—and indeed the soldiers and the people—knew all was hopeless. They started looking for scapegoats. But that's only Wikipedia.

I think that (some?) soldiers might have knew, but there is difference between knowing something and accepting such knowledge.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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03-10-2017, 03:12 AM
RE: Another argument why Nazi-germany wasnt particularly atheist
Wikipedia?

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