Another attack on moral subjectivism
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26-06-2015, 01:38 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
I think your questions seem to be trying to decouple morality from society, but morality is an adaptation of altruistic behaviors by society.

So it makes no sense to try and talk about moral or immoral outside the context of what boundary conditions any given society has defined at any given time.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-06-2015, 01:39 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 01:37 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 01:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Humanity (society) sets boundary conditions for allowed behavior. You can't decouple morality from society and civilization.

Society can also change the boundaries.

If I can get away with it am I obligated to not break those boundaries?

As a cognizant and self-aware member of society who understands those morals, yes.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-06-2015, 01:40 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
You may also be bound by conflicting moral principles to break the moral rules and limitations set by society (like marriage equality or many other social issues).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 01:39 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 01:37 PM)tear151 Wrote:  If I can get away with it am I obligated to not break those boundaries?

As a cognizant and self-aware member of society who understands those morals, yes.

where does that obligation come from?

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26-06-2015, 01:46 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 01:44 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 01:39 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As a cognizant and self-aware member of society who understands those morals, yes.

where does that obligation come from?

Society, the adaptive behavioral strategy by Homo sapiens from which morality is derived from the more general behavioral trait, altruism.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-06-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 01:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 01:44 PM)tear151 Wrote:  where does that obligation come from?

Society, the adaptive behavioral strategy by Homo sapiens from which morality is derived from the more general behavioral trait, altruism.

That's circular, why does societies approval matter, why should i listen to it for reasons that ARE NOT, and I repeat because everyone keeps forgetting this, ARE NOT to do with society's disapproval or hurting me or, that doesn't matter, if society hurts me something is not in my interest so i wouldnt do it anyway.

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26-06-2015, 01:54 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 01:50 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 01:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Society, the adaptive behavioral strategy by Homo sapiens from which morality is derived from the more general behavioral trait, altruism.

That's circular, why does societies approval matter, why should i listen to it for reasons that ARE NOT, and I repeat because everyone keeps forgetting this, ARE NOT to do with society's disapproval or hurting me or, that doesn't matter, if society hurts me something is not in my interest so i wouldnt do it anyway.

Morality is an adaptation of a behavior at the level of the society. It isn't circular.

It's the same thing as saying that predation is an adaptive strategy at the level of the species. Some species share similar predation strategies (convergent evolution) as do some societies share similar moral concepts.

Society's approval matters, because that's the level that morality operates at. It emerges from society's approval. Without society, there'd be no morality, only ancestral behavioral trait, altruism.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 01:55 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
And society also adapts morals into more specific sets of rules and laws, but they derive from moral and immoral actions deemed so by society. They (the laws or rules) are not inherently moral or immoral.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 01:56 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
If you lived outside of society, you'd find no morality. Only your basic survival instincts.

This is why we don't hold inanimate objects accountable when they seemingly break our moral guidelines. Like a volcano erupting and killing people. That isn't morally right or wrong, because the volcano isn't a member of society, which is where the level at which the moral rules are applied to.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-06-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
What you're saying can be easily explained by social contract without invoking morality at any point.

What is the difference between a right action and a wrong one?

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