Another attack on moral subjectivism
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26-06-2015, 03:11 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And? The fuck do I care? Just because they believe it, doesn't mean it's true.
And just because you don't believe it's true, doesn't make it false either. Your argument is hardly convincing. You may be able to excuse my lack of belief in it, as a product of my theism, not theirs though. I wonder how you account for their disagreement?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-06-2015, 03:11 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:07 PM)tear151 Wrote:  I think that is the case, I don't think we disagree on the actual functions going on, I still hold morality should not be used as a word in your system, it allows moral language and for you to jump to objective morality again without even you noticing.

I wouldn't say objective, I'd say defined at a specific point in time based on context and current moral systems.

Where do the moral systems get their legitimacy from, you can't say society, that's a bandwagon argument.

"A witty quote means nothing"
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26-06-2015, 03:12 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:10 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Which is why I believe we can look retroactively at actions (say 100 years ago) and realize it wasn't immoral at the time, but is now. (Whatever "it" is, like slavery)

Sort of like how we can look at the standards of beauty a hundred years ago, and realize much of these standards are different now?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-06-2015, 03:14 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:11 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I wouldn't say objective, I'd say defined at a specific point in time based on context and current moral systems.

Where do the moral systems get their legitimacy from, you can't say society, that's a bandwagon argument.

Society, because that's where morality is defined from.

I can say whatever I damn well please.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 03:15 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And? The fuck do I care? Just because they believe it, doesn't mean it's true.
And just because you don't believe it's true, doesn't make it false either. Your argument is hardly convincing. You may be able to excuse my lack of belief in it, as a product of my theism, not theirs though. I wonder how you account for their disagreement?

I could fucking care less if you don't it convincing. Because you are dishonest.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 03:17 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:14 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:11 PM)tear151 Wrote:  Where do the moral systems get their legitimacy from, you can't say society, that's a bandwagon argument.

Society, because that's where morality is defined from.

I can say whatever I damn well please.

Wouldn't your argument here be the same for pretty much every subjective preference, like standard of beauty, music, food, etc change over time, are different among various cultures etc.?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-06-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:14 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:11 PM)tear151 Wrote:  Where do the moral systems get their legitimacy from, you can't say society, that's a bandwagon argument.

Society, because that's where morality is defined from.

I can say whatever I damn well please.

"You can't say God creates morals because he's not real"

Yeah you can say what you like, I'm just saying you can't say that and it be a valid response, apologies if I caused offense.

Well if society is the only reason I'll just create my own values and appease society purely so i don't get lynched. Is that wrong?

"A witty quote means nothing"
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26-06-2015, 03:18 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And just because you don't believe it's true, doesn't make it false either. Your argument is hardly convincing. You may be able to excuse my lack of belief in it, as a product of my theism, not theirs though. I wonder how you account for their disagreement?

I could fucking care less if you don't it convincing. Because you are dishonest.

And the others here, who disagree with you? Do they just misunderstand you? Are they also dishonest?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-06-2015, 03:21 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:17 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:14 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Society, because that's where morality is defined from.

I can say whatever I damn well please.

"You can't say God creates morals because he's not real"

Yeah you can say what you like, I'm just saying you can't say that and it be a valid response, apologies if I caused offense.

Well if society is the only reason I'll just create my own values and appease society purely so i don't get lynched. Is that wrong?

Morally? No it isn't wrong because you're following morals as set by society. If those morals change and you don't though, then you've found yourself in a bit of a pickle.

And morals as set by society may not be entirely good or just. Which is why what is moral and immoral, sometimes changes.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 03:23 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 03:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I could fucking care less if you don't it convincing. Because you are dishonest.

And the others here, who disagree with you? Do they just misunderstand you? Are they also dishonest?

Are you actually reading their replies to me and mine to them?

Your dishonesty transcends this thread.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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