Another attack on moral subjectivism
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26-06-2015, 04:15 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:13 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 03:59 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It's all a social moment because these "morals" or in some cases laws, come largely based upon what the majorities of these individuals felt. Individuals collect and form groups... that's how it becomes a social society value.
This assumes that 100% of society agrees with a value and then calls transgression an immoral act.

Most perceived values within a society do not have 100% support.
People belong to societies because they don't want to be lonely. If you want a society that exactly agrees with your own values(moral beliefs) then you will be resigned to a society of one person.

No it doesn't, why do you think it assumes 100% agrees? It almost never is the case.

You've just said that, based on what, makes you proclaim that?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-06-2015, 04:16 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:05 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:01 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then how is morality an individual concept? Who are you obligated to?

Exactly! God!

For a religious person to make moral claims is totally consistent with their other views/beliefs.

For a non-religious person to make moral claims sounds silly and leaves lots of explaining to do.

This is why atheism leads to nihilism.

You have joined the false dichotomy club, I see.

Have you even read the posts in this thread? Consider

Even if you are religious, how do you determine what is moral? Is it only what the holy books say? The priests? The shaman?

And if you follow those prescriptions, then how are you moral? You are only following orders.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-06-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:05 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Exactly! God!

For a religious person to make moral claims is totally consistent with their other views/beliefs.

For a non-religious person to make moral claims sounds silly and leaves lots of explaining to do.

This is why atheism leads to nihilism.

You have joined the false dichotomy club, I see.

Have you even read the posts in this thread? Consider

Even if you are religious, how do you determine what is moral? Is it only what the holy books say? The priests? The shaman?

And if you follow those prescriptions, then how are you moral? You are only following orders.

For religious people, doing what God wants is what is moral.

Non-religious people should be able to recognize that the notion that certain actions can be "right" or "wrong" is only an illusion caused by the human condition.
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26-06-2015, 04:24 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
Life doesn't exist without oxygen. Behaviors don't exist without life. So of course morality doesn't exist without oxygen.

*respiring life as we know it*

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-06-2015, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 26-06-2015 04:32 PM by Chas.)
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:24 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have joined the false dichotomy club, I see.

Have you even read the posts in this thread? Consider

Even if you are religious, how do you determine what is moral? Is it only what the holy books say? The priests? The shaman?

And if you follow those prescriptions, then how are you moral? You are only following orders.

For religious people, doing what God wants is what is moral.

"I was only following orders" didn't pass at Nuremburg and it doesn't pass here.

Is it moral because God commands it, or does God command it because it is moral?
There is no answer to that other than one's opinion or theology - there is no fact of the matter.

Quote:Non-religious people should be able to recognize that the notion that certain actions can be "right" or "wrong" is only an illusion caused by the human condition.

You don't get a pass on calling it illusion. It is agreement, it is emotion, and it is evolved behavior - none of which are illusions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-06-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no answer to that other than one's opinion or theology - there is no fact of the matter.

No moral facts. That's really the only thing that moral nihilism claims.
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26-06-2015, 04:39 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:24 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  For religious people, doing what God wants is what is moral.

"I was only following orders" didn't pass at Nuremburg and it doesn't pass here.

Is it moral because God commands it, or does God command it because it is moral?
There is no answer to that other than one's opinion or theology - there is no fact of the matter.

Quote:Non-religious people should be able to recognize that the notion that certain actions can be "right" or "wrong" is only an illusion caused by the human condition.

You don't get a pass on calling it illusion. It is agreement, it is emotion, and it is evolved behavior - none of which are illusions.

Equally God is agreement and emotion and evolved behaviour that doesn't make him real, I can call whatever I like an illusion.

"A witty quote means nothing"
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26-06-2015, 05:01 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:37 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no answer to that other than one's opinion or theology - there is no fact of the matter.

No moral facts. That's really the only thing that moral nihilism claims.

Well, a dishonest misquote - what a surprise. Dodgy

Try again.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-06-2015, 05:02 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 04:39 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  "I was only following orders" didn't pass at Nuremburg and it doesn't pass here.

Is it moral because God commands it, or does God command it because it is moral?
There is no answer to that other than one's opinion or theology - there is no fact of the matter.


You don't get a pass on calling it illusion. It is agreement, it is emotion, and it is evolved behavior - none of which are illusions.

Equally God is agreement and emotion and evolved behaviour that doesn't make him real,

What? That isn't even sensible.

Quote: I can call whatever I like an illusion.

Sure you can - if you enjoy being wrong.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-06-2015, 05:17 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(26-06-2015 05:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-06-2015 04:39 PM)tear151 Wrote:  Equally God is agreement and emotion and evolved behaviour that doesn't make him real,

What? That isn't even sensible.

Quote: I can call whatever I like an illusion.

Sure you can - if you enjoy being wrong.

Evolved behaviour, emotion, and agreement, are irrelevant to truth.

"A witty quote means nothing"
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